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Did anybody watch this just now. I watched it and as always Obama is a great speaker. He had some good things to say that I liked but at the same time he beat around the bush about some things and let intricate details out.

Did anyone notice how they boo'd when he said that immigrants receiving care was a false statement? I want to know what they know since Obama didnt inlighten us.

I still feel as if he says one thing that looks somewhat good and its what a lot of people want to hear and then does something else.

Did anybody watch this just now. Iwatched it and as always Obama is a great speaker. He had some good things to say that I liked but at the same time he beat around the bush about some things and let intricate details out.

Did anyone notice how they boo'd the immigrants not being paid for? I want to know what they know since Obama didnt inlighten us.

So was Hitler.......

So was Hitler.......

funny, so is Palin......

its almost like they are politicians............

seriously, I can kinda get the communist references, but the nazi, hitler, slander, fear mongering stuff is getting old. stick with stalin, or komarad Komissar stuff. it actually has some bassis in logic rather than just political rhetoric.

So was Hitler.......

I am not sure what point you are trying to make or what you are trying to add to this thread but it was meant to discuss his speech tonight. so please keep those type of comments out of this thread.

Immigrants? or undocumented aliens? Didn't hear it so what did he reference?

I liked this part: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0PqBiNUyqU

Immigrants? or undocumented aliens? Didn't hear it so what did he reference?

when the health care reform was first proposed there were lots of rumors that immigrants would be insured. Obama stated that this was absolutely not true. The Republican side boooo and sounded like someone even called out "liar" but I couldnt make it out. Obama didnt say anything else about it. He just moved to the next point.

I liked this part: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0PqBiNUyqU

Thanks for the link! That got on youtube fast!

Again, There is a difference between immigrant and illegal alien. Immigrants are US citizens if they emigrate legally.

i should hope they wouldnt be insured. at least not on the tax payers dollar. i get pretty fired up about all the "rights" illegal aliens have, all the **** i had to go through to get accepted to college, and there are illegal aliens in the system, that **** burns me up.

What i dont get, regarding healthcare and hospital treatment for illegal immigrants, is that most of them are migrant workers right? in all fairness, doing what we ourselves might do in their position, working to send money home to our families. So if they are here, working for someone, that is hiring cheap foreign labor, and thus sending money out of the country instead of hiring american workers and keeping money here in the states....... why not make that employer responsible for said bills??

I personally dont think life saving treatment should be denied to anyone for any reason, but at some point someone needs to evaluate where the money is gonna come from to cover some things, and the taxpayers shouldnt be the answer.... unless were all paying into a system we all benifit from... like social security :rolleyes:.

when the health care reform was first proposed there were lots of rumors that immigrants would be insured. Obama stated that this was absolutely not true. The Republican side boooo and sounded like someone even called out "liar" but I couldnt make it out. Obama didnt say anything else about it. He just moved to the next point.

exactly right. some one yelled "it's a lie" after barry's statement. i love the look on pelosi's face. she couldn't believe it happened

Again, There is a difference between immigrant and illegal alien. Immigrants are US citizens if they emigrate legally.

I agree, which makes me wonder if he meant illegal immigrant and didnt say it or if the republicans actually dont want those who come here legally to be included in the health care reform. I have a hard time believing the later.

I am not sure what point you are trying to make or what you are trying to add to this thread but it was meant to discuss his speech tonight. so please keep those type of comments out of this thread.

A very valid point........Just cause it comes from his mouth dosent make it the gospel........Sorry I made the liberals on here mad everyone.......




I dont have a problem giving LEGAL immigrants the same benefits we have as citizens as long as they are productive members of society......

I just watched it again and he did say illegal immigrants.

A very valid point........Just cause it comes from his mouth dosent make it the gospel........Sorry I made the liberals on here mad everyone.......




I dont have a problem giving LEGAL immigrants the same benefits we have as citizens as long as they are productive members of society......

I am not a liberal or an Obama supporter by no means. Just want some good intelligent conversation since we are talking about this in history class.

. like social security :rolleyes:.

OK ****ing stop! Socail Security is in big, BIG trouble right now. Don't believe me? look it up yourself. it will be INSOLVENT in a matter of 5 to 8 years.
That is more money going out than it has on hand or even has coming in. So lets keep on track here. This is about tonights speech. not about SS


JEEZ if you guys could see the verbal onslaught I'm in over on FB about this healthcare crap. Look up Anne Rice there you'll see. What a bunch of whiny feel good liberals over there.:mad:

exactly right. some one yelled "it's a lie" after barry's statement. i love the look on pelosi's face. she couldn't believe it happened
That was priceless. I saved that video to keep for the future. Definitely a ballsy move by whoever said it.

What i dont get, regarding healthcare and hospital treatment for illegal immigrants, is that most of them are migrant workers right?

Uh, no. Maybe in VA they are, but take a little trip down to the southwest and you will see first hand that many or, dare I say, most come to suck on the giant teat known as the Gobierno Federale de Los Estados Unidos.

Sí, es verdad, lamentablemente. Dios mios.

Eh, no habla espanol, eh Gringo?

im taking that this semester too. I understood teh first line but not the second one

OK ****ing stop!

whoa whoa whoa there, note the rolling eyes, implying sarcasm, it was a joke, not a thread hijack and not a serious comment. eassssy there killer.

and no, i have no idea what all that spanish was. i kinda glazed over.

I know just enough to get a gun pointed at me in my neighborhood... I'm the only white guy.

He talked about a rumor of "killing off teh senior citizens." What exactly did this stem from? Please bring facts. Not some random email you got saying they were going to kill your grandma

End of life counseling for seniors that was to be a part of the original plan. Every five years seniors would have to set down and discuss their options on terminal health issues care. Supposing that the Government run system would not provide expensive care so as to save money for younger people.

I'd bet money that, that particular part was pulled due to the ****ing ****storm, tidal wave from hell backlash against it.

End of life counseling for seniors that was to be a part of the original plan. Every five years seniors would have to set down and discuss their options on terminal health care. Supposing that the Government run system would not provide expensive care so as to save money for younger people.
Ok.....I wonder what the fine print says in the new plan. that is what scares me about this guy is that he makes a bold statement with no details. Tell me how you are going to do it or why this is a false statement and if you amended what you originally said. I also want to know what you amended it with. Don't keep the public in the dark

Does anyone know what the Republicans were holding up?

i should hope they wouldnt be insured. at least not on the tax payers dollar. i get pretty fired up about all the "rights" illegal aliens have, all the **** i had to go through to get accepted to college, and there are illegal aliens in the system, that **** burns me up.

What i dont get, regarding healthcare and hospital treatment for illegal immigrants, is that most of them are migrant workers right? in all fairness, doing what we ourselves might do in their position, working to send money home to our families. So if they are here, working for someone, that is hiring cheap foreign labor, and thus sending money out of the country instead of hiring american workers and keeping money here in the states....... why not make that employer responsible for said bills??

I personally dont think life saving treatment should be denied to anyone for any reason, but at some point someone needs to evaluate where the money is gonna come from to cover some things, and the taxpayers shouldnt be the answer.... unless were all paying into a system we all benifit from... like social security :rolleyes:.


the problem is they are already insured. if an illegal gets hurt or sick and shows up at a hospital, the hospital has to treat them. even if there is no insurance. even though the hospital knows there is no way the illegal will pay for ANY of the treatment they will receive. the illegals just disappear afterwards. so the hospitals have to pass the costs on to the tax payers and insurance companies. CA spends over $3 BILLION per year on healthcare for illegal aliens.

i agree w/ you that no one should be denied emergency care. if an illegal alien/ migrant worker gets seriously injured whether at work or not, get him to the hospital and save his life.

however, if they just show up at the hospital and it's discovered that they're sick or have a disease, send them back to mexico (or whatever country) and let them deal with it. it's not our responsibility. this exact issue is in court right now. a (tx?) hospital was treating a terminally ill patient for months. the hospital was incurring huge financial losses for the treatment and could not afford it any longer. they made arrangements w/ a mexican hospital and transferred the patient to mexico, where the other hospital was to continue treatment. well someone sued and said the hospital had illegally deported the patient. the courts agreed and ruled that the hospital had to continue financing the patient's care in mexico.

the problem is they are already insured. if an illegal gets hurt or sick and shows up at a hospital, the hospital has to treat them. even if there is no insurance. even though the hospital knows there is no way the illegal will pay for ANY of the treatment they will receive. the illegals just disappear afterwards. so the hospitals have to pass the costs on to the tax payers and insurance companies. CA spends over $3 BILLION per year on healthcare for illegal aliens.

i agree w/ you that no one should be denied emergency care. if an illegal alien/ migrant worker gets seriously injured whether at work or not, get him to the hospital and save his life.

however, if they just show up at the hospital and it's discovered that they're sick or have a disease, send them back to mexico (or whatever country) and let them deal with it. it's not our responsibility. this exact issue is in court right now. a (tx?) hospital was treating a terminally ill patient for months. the hospital was incurring huge financial losses for the treatment and could not afford it any longer. they made arrangements w/ a mexican hospital and transferred the patient to mexico, where the other hospital was to continue treatment. well someone sued and said the hospital had illegally deported the patient. the courts agreed and ruled that the hospital had to continue financing the patient's care in mexico.

do you have a link for this? sounds like a good read

Um yea, Page after page of other details will be shot down as we go along. Do I understand that the "Comittee of 6" are the ones that are writing this bill?

I can't believe that they expect to pass this without qualified people writing something that would actually meet citizens needs.

He talked about a rumor of "killing off teh senior citizens." What exactly did this stem from? Please bring facts. Not some random email you got saying they were going to kill your grandma

also from a story he talked about his grandmother. apparently she was terminally ill and she received a hip replacement just 2 weeks before she died. he thought it was a waste of a procedure. he's made many statements during his campaign that old people shouldn't have some surgeries if they're not going to be around long enough to utilize the advantage of the procedure.

do you have a link for this? sounds like a good read
I want to see it too.
PS; I might have to make a trip somewhere, to maybe sabotage a generator, then accidentally run into a power pole near a certain hospital.:rolleyes:

do you have a link for this? sounds like a good read

actually, i think i made a thread about this here on the forum...... might try and search for it. ****ty deal for the guy, but he actually had family in mexico, they sent him home. it was his "guardian" or cousin or something here in the states that made all the waves and tried to get him to stay here getting care for free.

also from a story he talked about his grandmother. apparently she was terminally ill and she received a hip replacement just 2 weeks before she died. he thought it was a waste of a procedure. he's made many statements during his campaign that old people shouldn't have some surgeries if they're not going to be around long enough to utilize the advantage of the procedure.

at the risk of being set on fire, there is some logic to this. Youve got a terminal old person with maybe a few years left, and a 15 year old kid with their life ahead of em. they both are in line for a replacement liver.... who gets it? decisions like this are made every day, and its done by panels of experts and professional healthcare employees. hell for some old folks, the surgery might shorten their lifespan, or force them to spend the rest of their time in the hospital recouperating from surgery, only to die before they leave, instead of being at home with family. alll kinds of odd situations like that pop up.

First to the Hitler statement, he was a great speaker with horrible plans. No BS, no name calling, its just a historical comparison.

The VA had a end of life counseling deal reinstated recently. Dont remember the name of the case but a man had cancer and they told him there was nothing to do. Old vet died and months later they learn from a friend that there is a treatment and it has been in practice for over a year.

Anybody know the name of this story??

I am strongly opposed to just about everything this administration is doing. They flat out lie and distort numbers and will not own up to anything

do you have a link for this? sounds like a good read

here it is, but it was a FL hospital and an illegal from guatemala. my bad. and it wasn't for months. the hospital kept him as a ward for YEARS at over $1.5M
http://blog.taragana.com/n/fla-jury-begins-deliberations-in-case-of-guatemalan-man-illegally-deported-by-hospital-119180/

and here
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/03/us/03deport.html?pagewanted=all

the important part here is the 4th paragraph of the 1st article.
"But hospitals that receive Medicare reimbursements are required to provide emergency care to all patients and must provide an acceptable discharge plan once the patient is stabilized."

that's where tax payer $$$$$$$ come in to play. and that's also the problem with all these socialized programs, there's always a hook that cost the tax payer way more than it should.

WHAT? you mean the government can't just like print more money??? doubleya TEEEE<,Efffff

Do you think that it is appropriate for a government agency to make that call as to who will get the liver?

My opinion is never in a million years would I want that. Agreed these difficult decisions need to be made but with the concerned parties and without government regulations dictating the outcome will always be better. Case by case not within some law that makes the government money and justify someones job position to oversee them.

at the risk of being set on fire, there is some logic to this. Youve got a terminal old person with maybe a few years left, and a 15 year old kid with their life ahead of em. they both are in line for a replacement liver.... who gets it? decisions like this are made every day, and its done by panels of experts and professional healthcare employees. hell for some old folks, the surgery might shorten their lifespan, or force them to spend the rest of their time in the hospital recouperating from surgery, only to die before they leave, instead of being at home with family. alll kinds of odd situations like that pop up.

well there's a big difference between receiving a vital organ that's in very short supply and getting a hip replacement. receiving the organ is about staying alive, the later is all about quality of life. who's to know when you're going to die? his grandmother could have lived 2 more years. would the hip still have been a waste? and do you really want some bureaucrat with no medical training making these decisions when it's your life in the line? is bad enough dealing with insurance adjusters and case workers. the last thing we need is another layer of stupidity.

Stated better that I did, but the same thought process.

no no, i agree that it shouldnt be beuracrats, it should be doctors, but i think there should be some reason. for instance, people being told they dont have the right to die. i mean, telling them they have no option but to die is a bit more 180* than i would like to see, but i think its about time that its a viable option. As someone who does alot of stupid ****, my biggest fear is being kept alive in a hospital pooping and peeing in a pan... or worse, diapers. while in constant pain, or on constant medication detatched from reality. to me its a fate worse than death, but it would be forced onto me by all those who feel that letting someone die, that we could force to stay alive, is the more "moral" action to take. So yes, i feel that it is indeed progress to at least put death on the table as a viable option. we just need to carefully progress into it regarding who makes the final call.

It's called a living will. You make the call while your able to and then the family sees it through if you can't. Why add anything to that?

I work in a hospital and on any given night I have aboot 25 patients to care for. Of those about 12 are uninsured/homeless. And about 6 of those 12 are illegals. Sometimes the uninsured/homeless/illegals actually have a condition that can be treated and they'll be released but more often than not they have terminal illnesses such as AIDS, HEP C, renal failure, endstage cancers etc. The hospital eats the cost and passes it on to those with insurance.

For those with the terminal conditions, a panel of doctors, NPs, PAs, and other people way smarter than me make the decision to end their treatments. The board is made of volunteer medical personnel who work at our hospital. The usual policy is to simply keep them comfortable(ie pain meds) and wait around for them to expire. I can't imagine that decision being made by anyone on a gov payroll...

Now this might all be wrong but I have been told the local hospital no longer treats ANYONE without insurance or money up front. I know that they stopped taking medicare about a year ago because most of the doctors here in town stopped taking medicare because the hospital did.

It really depends on the hospital. If it's privately owned then they can do whatever they please. The hospital I work for is a not-for-profit one they also take medicare/medicaid so we care for any and all patients. Just like Canada!

There was a fundamental problem with this speech that I really can't even believe it was put out this way.
You don't in one sentence attack the other side then try and say we need to come together and reach across the isle. This was done several times during this speech and just gave it zero credibility.
It IS, however, classic Obama. Only he could get away with such debauchery.

1) I don't believe Obama or any other lib on the illegal immigrant question. IMO, the "liar!" guy was spot-on. The left, as is their usual MO, will use semantics to try to prove they were right, but they aren't. They have already lined up "comprehensive immigration reform" (translation: complete amnesty for the tens of millions of illegals already here) on the Hill, and once they pass it and Obama signs it, these people won't be "illegal immigrants" anymore...and Mommy Obama can give them all the free healthcare he wants...without technically being a liar on the health care issue. It's all a pack of total bull**** and anyone who actually buys it hasn't been watching fedzilla for any amount of time. They almost got that BS amnesty bill passed when Bush was in office and the repubs in control on the hill...it'll go through this congress/pres no problem.

2) Obama's supposed 'concession' to the Right on Medical Malpractice tort reform is a a handfull of poison oak posing as an olive branch. These 'limited trials' the White House is talking about will be set up / written by trial lawyers, will be temporary if enacted, and probably will never escape commitee on the Hill. Then Obama will say "well, I tried but it's not in the bill...and this reform is so important I can't veto it over such a small issue..." :mad:

3) Anyone who actually thinks government injecting itself into healthcare will lower our out of pocket costs is an idiot. Sorry for the harsh words but there is no other way around it. The government does millions of things to the tune of trillions of dollars every year...and not a single one of them has ever been as cheap, efficient, cost effective or competitive as the private sector. Any time it even appears to be a better deal, all they have done is craft government-style accounting...so your out of pocket is lower today but the rest of the bill winds up in the national debt...costing more in interest tomorow. Eventually that bill is gonna come due, and it ain't gonna be pretty. ****, it ain't pretty NOW. :crazy:

4) A "public option" (aka Government without option, as I like to call it) will become the only option after a short time. This bill isn't about choice or competition...it's about taking over the entire industry. Think about it. If you are a business and you have a bunch of employees...and they demand health insurance...and it costs you a lot of money, why not dump them all onto the government plan? Why not get someone else (that someone else is you and me, BTW) to pay that bill? Big biz LOVES the idea of a government option. They can cut all those costs they have right now and never look back. Additionally, the House bill requires that no new people can be added to a private insurance plan...and if the plan changes significantly, you are pulled from it and put in the government plan. How often do Americans switch jobs? How often do plans change? As people bail out of private plans or are pulled into the government one, what will happen to the insurance costs for those who stay in private plans? They'll go through the roof with the much smaller pools, and then the last few hold outs will voluntarily go to the gov plan instead of paying $1000 per paycheck. :crazy: This bill is a complete take over of almost 20% of our economy...and anyone who says it isn't, including the President, is a damn liar. BTW, how is kicking the entire medical insurance industry in the balls going to help the unemployment rate?!

5) Government care always results in rationing. Every government healthcare system has it, it's just a matter of time. It might be 10 years...it might be 50...but eventually you end up with a system that costs way to much and in an effort to restrain those costs, they ration. This kind of thing has only just begun in places like Canada, the UK and Australia. It's going to get worse, it's just a matter of time. If they like their system, more power to them...but I don't want it. IMO, it is un-American. No Founding Father would approve of this bull****. Not one of them. To quote Madison...the primary author of the Constitution...



If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish and pay them out of their public treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress... Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America.

They also want to charge a fee for the "high end" plans(Obama specifically mentioned this in his speech), meaning if you have any plan better than a catastropohic coverage plan, then your plan's cost is gonna go waaayy up, because you can afford it, share the wealth.

The end result of that move will be Jek's no. 4 point, you'll be priced out of your plan and have no choice but to go with the gov't plan or the gov't backed plan.

They also want to charge a fee for the "high end" plans(Obama specifically mentioned this in his speech), meaning if you have any plan better than a catastropohic coverage plan, then your plan's cost is gonna go waaayy up, because you can afford it, share the wealth.

The end result of that move will be Jek's no. 4 point, you'll be priced out of your plan and have no choice but to go with the gov't plan or the gov't backed plan.
100% true, but what is even scarier, at least for me, is him pointing to my current insurance program as one that is working. This says to me that it is good enough to make sure they rape me for having a good insurance program.


There is also the provision that states if you change jobs, your healthcare automatically becomes the government run program. Where is the choice that was promised?

that promise officially expires when Obama puts ink on that bill. When a lib promises you something, all it means is that the focus groups they did suggest it's the best way to grease the rails to get a bill passed. When a conservative promises you something, you're actually going to get it.

So was Hitler.......

Godwin's law.

So was Hitler.......

I am not sure what point you are trying to make or what you are trying to add to this thread but it was meant to discuss his speech tonight. so please keep those type of comments out of this thread.


Sorry to sidetrack, but the comparisons to Hitler stem mostly from Hitler's ability to en-trance people and manipulate them to want to do what he wants, even when they know it's wrong. Hitler also blatently lied regularly, even when documentation proved that lie. Just like Obama.
Hitler and the Nazi's also worked hard at propaganda to change underlying principles to help further their ends. Obama's administration is doing the same thing (no more "War on Terror", etc).

I didn't watch the speech, so I don't have anything else to contribute.
I read hunting books instead.

The Obamunists also use the Geobles 'lie, lie and lie some more, eventually they will believe it' approach to propaganda. The hard-lefty media and editorial boards across the land are all to eager to help with that.

The Nazis believed in government controlled healthcare and industry. They distrust capitalist enterprises, and have very little faith in the judgement of the individual. There are a ton of similarities. The main difference is that Obama is smart enough to know that a soft tyranny is a much more effective way to control subjects and less likely to start a revoltion than a hard tyranny. Of course, those of us who know jack **** about history know that once you have the soft version, and your most effective means to resist has been removed, the hard variant is just one election away.