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He associates heavily with socialists and communists.
He wrote socialist and communist material in his books.
His appointees are socialist/communist leaning fringe radical hard leftists.
He's read and referred to socialist and communist literature.
He was seriously involved with a group that's currently making national news for it's widespread corruption and unethical practices.
He spent 20 years listening to a racist preacher, and even praised his spiritual leadership and persoanl influence.

When the heck are people going to wake up and figure out there's only so much that can be rationalized away?


Obama's regulatory chief believes there should be a new interpretation of the constitution and a new bill of rights.


http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=109529



Among the gems in it:
The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;


Now how can the government protect a right to a job if it doesn't own an industry?
Not to mention, the government already protects a right to work through existing anti-discrimination laws, so obviously, this position is one that expects the government to *provide* the job. So the burden of employment shifts to the government, and under a garaunteed right to a job, that will no doubt cause a strong decrease in productivity (as shown by some cases of shop unionization), and a likely shift of qualified candidates away from the productive private industries.
Since taxing to pay employees is inefficient and unsustainable, private industry and it's employees will carry the tax burden to sustain the government industries that are providing the garaunteed jobs.


Another of Obama's appointees favors population control through compulsory abortion, like China's family/child limit.

I think it should be pretty clear that the people in power would like to create a society of government control.

That's at least one reason this administration looks like Nazi's through some of their expressions.


When do we reach the point of Operation Valkyrie?

IMO, the shot heard round the world scenario would be when either a) elections get banned or b) they come for the guns. I don't think anything else would be powerful enough, to enough people, to start a revolution.

How about that new scandal with the National Endowment for the Arts? Obama gets them a **** load of cash in the Porkulus bill, then his stooges have a conference call with these big art groups and tells them that Obama needs them to use their creativity to support his agenda? Every one of these groups, surprise surprise, endorses Obamacare within a matter of days and soon thereafter starts making actual pro-Obama art. :crazy: This is, of course, illegal...but hey, who's counting! :crazy:

i heard something in the radio yesterday that everyone in the arts is up in arms about a new proposed tax on the arts. its supposed to affect every ticket sold for any kind of live performance, tv, radio movies and art sales.

yet another industry under attack. I have a lot of issues with the "art community" because they tend to be ultra-lib, but I pity any industry that becomes the target of Uncle Sam. The industry I'm in (banking) is massive enough that we can slow fedzilla down (at great, unecessary cost BTW!)...but some parts of the art industry aren't really able to defend themselves.

if they would turn off their favorite sitcalm. maybe they would get it?the regulator guy is scary...i heard he supports animals having attorneys in court?maybe i have the wrong guy? :rolleyes:

the whole things a friggin joke, the guy is OBVIOUSLY a socialist, which for those who dont know pretty much has the same political ideology as a fascist (think Nazi Germany) what about the Humana deal?

The White House tells a private insurance corporation to stop sending out letters to their customers letting them know that the new health care bill will directly affect their Medicaid.

GM? The U.S gov. now owns %60 of GM!

Banks? The gov now owns %80 of AIG!

There is a bill on the table to pretty much kill the telecommunications industry as well as censor the internet.

With the proposed newspaper bailouts (Washington Post, New York Times) the gov. will control these as well.

The new healthcare bill pretty much puts your life in the hands of the gov.

There is a proposed bill that also would have everyone that files a tax return to declare all the firearms in the household....which i dont have to tell you would be one easy step from having the local pigs come and get them if they were ever banned....


So step back and look at what you have.....in 8 short months, the gov now owns the banks that lend you money...the company that makes your cars...the people that make the decisions whether you live or die....they know which of us owns a gun....and all the medians in which you get your news!!!!

Plz tell me im hallucinating and this is all a dream?!?!

And they say that the Patriot Act was bad.....:rolleyes:

I bet you anything that the War room meetings at the White House sounds like the meetings did in the Kremlin in the early days of the Soviet Union. Everyone talks about revaluation. Problem is it is already taking place, and it is a communist revaluation right before our eye's. For those who know little of history Fidel Castro did not come out as a communist until he was well in control of Cuba. He won over the people with his words and charisma. Sound familiar?
ANYONE who still supports Obama is either an idiot or a closet communist. No other way around it. If it were not for all the other commies running the Senate and Congress there is no doubt that Obama would be the first President impeached. Lets hope we can make that a possibility next year at the voting both.

your right for the most part but its not communist ideas he's preaching, its socialist... i encourage everyone to google the different types of ECONOMIC governments, see this is where our schools are falling short, the most important thing we should be teaching we're not, we are NOT a democracy! we are a democratic REPUBLIC! democracies vote on every bill a gov would pass, a dem republic votes for someone to vote for THEM on the bill, so we are in sense a democracy but not entirely, what im worried about more is the economic impact,

we are a capitalist society which means the private sector makes the decisions whats best for them as a company and thats what we have always been, thats why our country has done as well as it has is because we are the financial leaders of the world and not because we have the "right" kind of gov, obama is leading us away from a capitalist society into a socialist society, which means the gov controls th economy and not the private sector

Just let me say this after my rant.........next election dont vote for the black guy.....vote for the best candidate to lead out country!!!!

You are making a rather large assumption that there will be another election.

In reality a lot of what O and the Dems are proposing falls under a new type of socio-economic structure known as 'Sustainability'. Under this idea, no one owns anything, it is all kept in harmony with nature. Fences harm nature, as well as private ownership rights harm nature. It includes population control, although their numbers are a bit nuts, something like 500 million people is the limit that Earth can sustain according to this plan.

The first steps in this plan look identical to socialism, but move far beyond the limited scope of socialism. Do a bit of searching and see if it doesn't scare you. It all ties in, global climate change, sustainable development, even the green movement ties into a huge plan introduced into the UN in the 70's, 80's, and 90's.

look i dont care who you are, just look at whats happening around you, if you dont own one, buy a gun, check out this site, i dont know about you guys but i have a feeling something BIG is coming, and i dont feel it like Y2K i feel it in my gut, something is telling me to be prepared or you will perish....you may think im crazy but think about Noah....

www.thesurvivalistblog.net/

Trust me, lot's of us already own guns. My current focus has been on ammo and food stockpiles.

your right for the most part but its not communist ideas he's preaching, its socialist
Umm... that is the same thing! You ever heard of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republic? If your trying to say the guy is a Nazi well then your way off base. The Nazi would never dream of "spreading the wealth". Obamas ideals are communist through and through. Government makes all the decisions and the people do as they are told. Government owns everything, not big business or the people.

look i dont care who you are, just look at whats happening around you, if you dont own one, buy a gun, check out this site, i dont know about you guys but i have a feeling something BIG is coming, and i dont feel it like Y2K i feel it in my gut, something is telling me to be prepared or you will perish....you may think im crazy but think about Noah....

www.thesurvivalistblog.net/ (http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/)

That site is ridiculous! Nothing is ever going to happen that would force you to "survive" like that! Damn, survivalist nut-jobs! :D

The saddest thing is reading Facebook updtes by my one friend who is self professed socialist/communist. He loves Obama.

The Democratic party has been going more and more Socialist for as long as I've been old enough to understand politics. The sad thing is someone like me who really is pretty middle of the road in life, has to vote and be conservative as hell to try and counter their advances.

I am done commenting on guns or other such things. I am paranoid enough to believe everything is monitored well enough that I won't say that crap on the internet anymore.

Also, why are American's so arrogant? Why are so full of ourselves we think we can make it work? I mean, look at communist and socialist history. There is little success in those systems. We think we can make it work, why? Cause we are America of course, the best nation ever.

Communism and Socialism can only work if no one is greedy and everyone goes along with it. So basically if you completely eliminate human nature, it can work just fine. Morons.


My understanding of TRUE Communism is it is a governmental system lacking leadership. It is basically Socialism that gets setup so well it no longer requires leaders, everyone just works together harmonieslly. My understanding is also that it is also a godless system where people realize they are just themselves and they have to work together to make the most of life here and now. While I personally could care less about that, others will not be happy.

By my understanding, no one has ever really reached true Communist ideals cause the greed and corruption and failures of man come into play before it can ever work.

That site is ridiculous! Nothing is ever going to happen that would force you to "survive" like that! Damn, survivalist nut-jobs! :D


:haha:I had one thought when I read this, "I am not only a client, I am also the CEO and founder of all things Survival!":haha:

IMO, the shot heard round the world scenario would be when either a) elections get banned or b) they come for the guns. I don't think anything else would be powerful enough, to enough people, to start a revolution.



Elections rarely get banned outright. Look at Iran's last election. Even Iraq under Saddam had "elections".
The trouble is, it's a fine line to be able to determine if it was rigged or not. Iran just crossed it last time. But most of the time, it's debatable from within, outside entities usually can spot on riggin', and being debatable gives it some semblance of legitimacy.
The guns thing, they would do the same thing, just keep picking away at gun types, usages, areas, then over time, it becomes so restrictive that taking them comes easy for alot. At least that's what's happened in other countries. It takes a long time and would take even longer here in the US. The trouble is, sadly, we've already started down that road.

And a bill that would force us to declare our guns, fat chance. Good luck.
I think that would be a shot heard round the world.
That's about as good as our states Governor putting the "Use Tax" box on our state income tax return, a box for you to declare all the stuff you bought from other states (be it online, mail order, etc) so you can pay your state 6% tax on it. Ha, good luck.

Sadly as a business owner I am one person that pays Use Tax. I never knew what it was either, no one told me until a few months ago. Stupid of me but yea. Sucks cause if I buy products and give them to customers as gifts, say tshirts, or hats, I have to pay sales tax on them. :(

Nothing is ever going to happen that would force you to "survive" like that! Damn, survivalist nut-jobs! :D

actually i could see it happening very easily. how many states are on the brink of bankruptcy? ca is way out there. nj is close behind. ga doesn't have any $$ to help w/ hundreds of millions of dollars worth of flood damage from this past week. FEMA's never fully recovered from katrina, they're no help.

do you think contractors will keep fixing roads and bridges when they keep getting worthless IOUs? eventually these big corps. will (rightfully) file suit to get paid and the states will be broke. when the states run out of $$, who's going to work for them? emergency service personnel will quit, no more police, fire, ems. (MANY walked out after katrina). power outages would cause food shortages. one of the worst things that could happen is a water shortage caused either from a natural disaster or employees quitting. without food and water, it would not take long for a total breakdown of society.

the problem is that people are no longer self reliant or self sufficient.. they can't survive w/out governmental help. thats more true the closer you get to urban areas.

The federal government will bail out the states with more money that doesn't have anything behind it but debt for the next 2 million years.

I think Obama may be more of a fascist than he is a socialist or a communist. He is doing everything he can to control every industry in the country while maintaining the guise of private ownership (do you really own something if Uncle Sam is telling you everything you can/can't do?). That's textbook fascism.

Throw another clue on the pile. I hadn't been paying a whole lot of attention to the Chicago Olympics deal, figured it was just our man Obama rooting for his hometown.

Nope. xNot that simple. xIf you didn't see it yet, watch the Glenn Beck show when they repeat it tonight, the first 20 minutes explains how this relates to Valerie Jarrett - Obama's senior advisor, the one who brought us Green Jobs czar Van Jones. Must-see-TV.:eek1:

How about the a-hole School Safety Czar who not only broke the law when he failed to report illegal man-boy "love", but actually encouraged the kid to keep getting ****ed by the older man. :crazy: Clearly this guy is the most qualified person in the country to keep our kids safe. :rolleyes:

Throw another clue on the pile. I hadn't been paying a whole lot of attention to the Chicago Olympics deal, figured it was just our man Obama rooting for his hometown.

Nope. xNot that simple. xIf you didn't see it yet, watch the Glenn Beck show when they repeat it tonight, the first 20 minutes explains how this relates to Valerie Jarrett - Obama's senior advisor, the one who brought us Green Jobs czar Van Jones. Must-see-TV.:eek1:



looks like they're getting some opposition right at home. many chicagoans don't want the raise in taxes to pay for it all only to be stuck w/ a bunch of useless buildings later on.

http://www.breitbart.tv/chicagoans-for-rio-not-everyone-in-illinois-wants-the-2016-olympics/

do you think contractors will keep fixing roads and bridges when they keep getting worthless IOUs? eventually these big corps. will (rightfully) file suit to get paid and the states will be broke. when the states run out of $$, who's going to work for them? emergency service personnel will quit, no more police, fire, ems. (MANY walked out after katrina). power outages would cause food shortages. one of the worst things that could happen is a water shortage caused either from a natural disaster or employees quitting. without food and water, it would not take long for a total breakdown of society.

My wife deals with this already. The county will send an e-mail wanting a preliminary rough contract. It gets approved and work starts. Then a few weeks in, the county will change the billing rate on the offical contrat. Its crazy they put up with it, but the government is about the only one who wants to build large bridges and roads, so there are not a whole lot of clients to pick from.

The other issue is its not really big business. Its mostly small, local companies that do this stuff. Even the big players are unlikely to have more than 1000 employees. A lot of the "big corporations" that do this are actually joint ventures of several smaller companies.

This means they don't have the ability to spread losses over multiple divisions and guys loose their jobs even when there is work. Add to this Sarbanes/Oxley (another layer of government in the private industry) and you can't push money around to keep things going. Too bad no one gets to audit the governments books AND make them accountable for the crap they spend money on.

Obama, like him or hate him, it doesnt matter but he is our President so we should all support him in the name of country, god and honor.

Obama, like him or hate him, it doesnt matter but he is our President so we should all impeach him in the name of country, god and honor.

fixed it

Obama, like him or hate him, it doesnt matter but he is our President so we should all support him in the name of country, god and honor.

I respect you and your opinion, but if the Sons of Liberty had thought that way, the USA wouldn't even exist. All hail King George! ;)

I respect you and your opinion, but if the Sons of Liberty had thought that way, the USA wouldn't even exist. All hail King George! ;)
no doubt but sadly we live in a different world than they.

Also, why are American's so arrogant? My understanding is also that it is also a godless system where people realize they are just themselves and they have to work together to make the most of life here and now..
and here it is!;) good point,bro.

no doubt but sadly we live in a different world than they.

No doubt about that. The world we live is sitting in the toilet bowl and things are already starting to spin. :crazy:

Obama, like him or hate him, it doesnt matter but he is our President so we should all support him in the name of country, god and honor.


I disagree. To support a liar, one becomes a liar also.

I support and will defend the Constitution of the United States of America, against all enemies, both foreign and domestic...

I will not support one whose goal is the destruction and remaking of this country in his racist, angry, hate filled image.

Amen brother!!!!

I disagree. To support a liar, one becomes a liar also.

I support and will defend the Constitution of the United States of America, against all enemies, both foreign and domestic...

I will not support one whose goal is the destruction and remaking of this country in his racist, angry, hate filled image.
did you support Bush? because he was possibly the biggest liar of all Presidential history. its pretty obvious at this point that the way the country was and is being run isnt working. mainly because the american people are too lazy to do for themselves and want hand outs. im not saying everyone is like this.

IMO if a President ever deserved to be removed from office Bush deserved it 100%

and how has obama lied? im not trying to make arguments just trying to get your point of view. and maybe im missing something but i do not see him as racist, angry or hate filled. in fact i believe that its the american people that are, at this point, racist, angry and hate filled.

Could you by chance fulfill the request you made of 62 fat guy as well and provide verifiable facts that Bush lied please?

Could you by chance fulfill the request you made of 62 fat guy as well and provide verifiable facts that Bush lied please?
http://www.rense.com/general58/dadmin.htm

did you support Bush? because he was possibly the biggest liar of all Presidential history. its pretty obvious at this point that the way the country was and is being run isnt working. mainly because the american people are too lazy to do for themselves and want hand outs. im not saying everyone is like this.

IMO if a President ever deserved to be removed from office Bush deserved it 100%

and how has obama lied? im not trying to make arguments just trying to get your point of view. and maybe im missing something but i do not see him as racist, angry or hate filled. in fact i believe that its the american people that are, at this point, racist, angry and hate filled.
How has Obama lied, should be pretty easy...

1. No new taxes for anyone making less than 250k, yet within days signed the SCHIP bill which raised taxes on mostly poor and lower middle class smokers.
2. Federal dollars will not be used to fund abortions (I don't have a big care about this one, but it is a lie), every bill in Congress to reform health care includes provisions to ensure that tax dollars can be used to fund abortions.
3. Illegal immigrants will not be covered by the healthcare, yet they cite the number of uninsured as including the 12-16 million illegals in this country.
4. The housing collapse was caused by Republicans. Funny how many times the Rep's tried to control FM/FM to prevent this from happening. Also funny to note the Dem's were responsible for strong arming banks into lending to individuals who were too high risk.
5. He stated he will not sign any bill that hasn't been posted for at least 72 hours for the public to read. He didn't even read the stimulus bill.
6. There is no 'pork' in the stimulus bill. This was refuted before he even said it, there were more than 5,000 pork projects included in the stimulus.
7. The most honest, ethical, transparent administration ever. Yet if anyone dissents from his views he calls them 'wrong', 'not representative of Americans', and even right wing extremists a.k.a. terrorists.

I could go on and on about all the lies that Obama has spewed in the 9 months he has been in office, but it would take pages of postings.

http://www.rense.com/general58/dadmin.htm
Well if it's on the internet then it must be true. Then again I doubt if the Kurd's who were gassed (with WMD's) in the streets would agree.

those Kurds didn't die from WMDs, they died (pre-emptively I might add) from evil Bush lies. They were very very evil lies... :rolleyes:

http://varifrank.com/images/kurd_15.jpg

The key fact is that Iraq did have chem weapons, it did have a nuclear reactor and it did throw inspectors out, breaking the cease-fire at the end of desert storm I. Now maybe Saddam really didn't have any weapons left in 2003 (or maybe Syria obtained a WMD program...)...but he did break the treaty and thus "it's awn". That's the way these things work. International law has always worked that way...in spite of what the left spews about "illegal wars". If a cease fire treaty's terms are broken by one side or another, the other side is not bound by the treaty in any way....meaning that hostilities can resume...completely legally.

to be 100% honest i cant give two turds how many of saddams own people he killed. the fact of the matter is that we went to Afgan to fight a "war on terror" and ended up trying to fix some f*d up country instead. and in the end we are the ones that ended up with the f*d up country. we should not be the worlds freedom fighters because no one is going to come fighting for our freedoms, if that day comes. it is the peoples job to fight its government one way or another. this "war on terror" has made us one of the most hated countries in the world. even more so than before the wars. what we did was wrong and its about time we started to see that. i will not lie in the beginning i supported going after Al Qaeda. However, I never once supported crossing the line and going into Iraq. and what good have we done? none. if we were to leave Iraq today or 10 years from now a new tyrannt is going to rise up and take control of the country. its the way its been for them for 1000s of years. we are pretty arrogant to think we can change this for them. the people have to want change and they didnt and dont. as far as the chem weapons in Iraq they have always had them. even days after the first Gulf War they still had them and no one cared then so why all of a sudden care now? Bush lead us to Afgan then forced us into Iraq to finish what his father started. We fought a personal vendetta war for 7 years and all but ignored al qaeda. our sons and daughters died for a mad mans revenge and for that reason alone Bush should be put in jail.

I assume that you don't "give two turds" how many of his own people Hitler killed either..........

http://www.rense.com/general58/dadmin.htm

Jeff Rense as your source? I think that speaks volumes right there. I'd be embarrassed to even mention his name as a source for anything. Your present and future credibility just took a Warp 9 nosedive....

Bush lead us to Afgan then forced us into Iraq to finish what his father started. We fought a personal vendetta war for 7 years and all but ignored al qaeda. our sons and daughters died for a mad mans revenge and for that reason alone Bush should be put in jail.

Could you help me understand this one? How did Bush's father not finish what he started in the Gulf war? His objective was to remove Saddam from our ally, Kuwait. He did that, then left. Did GH Bush get scared or something and run away? We certainly had the military power to remove Saddam from power then, maybe more then we did in 2003.
So I'm just not quite getting how GH Bush didn't finish something and GW Bush went into Iraq to finish it for him.

You forgot no lobbyists in his administration, and his first hires were lobbyists...

to be 100% honest i cant give two turds how many of saddams own people he killed.

I didn't bring it up because I thought you gave a crap about human life, I only mentioned it because the myth that Saddam never ever had any WMDs is laughably inaccurate and easily disproven with pictures and yet some people still cling to it.

the fact of the matter is that we went to Afgan to fight a "war on terror" and ended up trying to fix some f*d up country instead.

The US has done this before. In WWII, for example. We didn't have to go fight in Europe. We coulda just kept it to the country that attacked us, Japan. Germany would have happily signed a non-agression pact with us. But we didn't, and we were right not to do so. Iraq is related to 9.11 in one important way. 9.11 changed our security world-view. In a new world, where 19 guys with box cutters is a massive threat to national security, how can an evil dictator with billions of dollars, a million-man-army, a propensity to use WMDs, links to international terrorists and a massive grudge against us not be?

and in the end we are the ones that ended up with the f*d up country.

That has little to do with war spending and a lot to do with social programs. We have plenty of money to fund our military.

we should not be the worlds freedom fighters because no one is going to come fighting for our freedoms, if that day comes. it is the peoples job to fight its government one way or another.

Both the Kurds and the Shiites tried to do this when GHWB suggested it, and because it was 'none of our business', they ended up getting slaughtered. Eventually we set up no-fly zones to try to protect them, but the damage was done. In short, people like yourself and the eurotrash screwed up the situation. Pro-liberty people would have supported really helping the Kurds/Shiites in their war of liberation....and a 2nd gulf war wouldn't have even been necessary. So, your position is directly preventing you from obtaining the goals you claim to support. Ever think that might be a sign that your position was wrong in the first place?

this "war on terror" has made us one of the most hated countries in the world.

Correction, most hated by America-hating leftwing media hacks. The people who hate us now, hated us before 9.11, and that's a fact. You think Iran loved the US on 9.10? Syria? North Korea? **** no. They have always hated our guts because we stand between them and their megolomaniacal dreams of world domination. Europeans don't really hate us either, they hate themselves for being such panty-wastes. They have yet to come to terms with their own uselessness. This is why counties who's examples of nation-building are mainly disasters in Africa and the Middle East try to crit our performance in that regard, even though we are the best nation building country in the history of man.

Lastly, doing the right thing, even if every single man/woman/child on Earth hate us for it, is still THE RIGHT THING. This isn't a highschool popularity contest or beauty pagent. There was a time when Communists were a majority in this world, and commies always hated the US...should we have just bowed down and said "well, we don't want people to hate us, so lets go commie to!!"???? That's just moronic.

what we did was wrong and its about time we started to see that.

:rolleyes: Good luck. I don't consider liberating tens of millions of people from brutal dictatorship and smacking down assholes like Saddam, the Taliban and Al Queda to be "wrong"....but if you do, more power to you. My guess is, it's easy to make that call when you are a yahoo sitting here safe/comfortable here in the US sipping your damn lattes with your pinky sticking out. If you were one of the people that was going to be killed by one of those regimes, or who had to live in fear every single second of every single day that the secret police were going to come cut your throat in the middle of the night, or worse...you'd have a different opinion.

You seem to have this misguided notion that the world is a great place, if only we'd quit screwing it up. I got news for ya, I've seen enough of the world to know that it's a ****ed up, violent, brutal ****storm waiting to happen (if it isn't already in a particular spot)...and the only thing stopping it is the good guys having/using guns.

and what good have we done? none.

Put down the LA Times. A lot of good has been done, the fact that you chose to ignore it doesn't make it 'go away'. Saddam isn't executing innocent people anymore. There ya go, one good thing. So much for the 'none theory'. It's taken a lot of work, a lot of $ and a lot of lives of people with more backbone than you to get to where we are right now. A lot of people would have bailed along the way, decided it wasn't worth it or whatever...but in spite of the fanaticism of our enemy there and the knives some Americans have tried to thrust into the grunts back, they are winning anyway. I know that pisses people like you off. You'd rather see America defeated if it results in good news for your political world.

Maybe now is the time for you to grab an AK and a ski mask and move, to support your ideological allies in the insurgency. No reflective vest for you though...

if we were to leave Iraq today or 10 years from now a new tyrannt is going to rise up and take control of the country.

You have no way of knowing this one way or the other.

its the way its been for them for 1000s of years.

Japan had been the same way their whole history too, until WWII. Opps.

we are pretty arrogant to think we can change this for them.

Another left-wing media talking point. :rolleyes: We 'changed' both Germany and Japan...and you think Iraq is an impossible mission...even while we have made stunning progress there in the last year or two?

the people have to want change and they didnt and dont.

You don't have a GD clue what you're talking about. You should really inform yourself before you make a fool our of yourself in public. At least 50% of the reason why the surge worked is that it happened to coincide with a majority of the Sunni population finally making up it's mind to support the new Iraqi government instead of the insurgency/Al Queda. A lot of good-guy / ally Iraqis have died as a result of that decision...but they made the right decision and things have got better ever since. They saw what Al Queda had to offer, with thier killing of innocent people and terror and wanted to change. To their credit, they did change. For awhile there, people, including myself, were wondering if anyone in Iraq was going to be willing to 'stand up' and they did. It took a long time. IMO many of the people there didn't think we had the backbone to stick around and they didn't want to back us if we were going to abandon them. With the surge and our combat losses, we proved we were willing to go the extra mile. They saw that and started to turn against the terrorists/insurgents. I dunno where you get this 'they didn't want to change' theory, but it's got more holes than swiss cheese.

as far as the chem weapons in Iraq they have always had them. even days after the first Gulf War they still had them and no one cared then so why all of a sudden care now?

Oh brother. If 6 months after DS we had gone back into Iraq, clowns like you would have screamed "OMFG, why are we rushing to war?!?!?!" Since we waited 12 years and a bajillion UN security council resolutions, you're pissed that we 'waited to long'. Clearly, you're against the idea either way...so you should drop the 'timing' aspect of your arguement. It isn't helping your cause at all.

Bush lead us to Afgan then forced us into Iraq to finish what his father started. We fought a personal vendetta war for 7 years and all but ignored al qaeda. our sons and daughters died for a mad mans revenge and for that reason alone Bush should be put in jail.

:rolleyes: Ignored Al Queda? We've killed like 75-80% of their pre-9.11 identified leadership. If someone killed 80% of your family, would you think that Mr. Murderer had "ignored" your family?

ignore him, hes obviously drank the BHO kool aid and lets popular media influence him in strange and unethical ways.....




:eek1::eek1::eek1::eek1: OPEN YOUR EYES MAN!!!!! :eek1::eek1::eek1::eek1:

Jek, well said. I'm not going to rephrase what you said as a "me too" response, but I do have one further comment to make.

...has made us one of the most hated countries in the world.

Maybe the enemies of liberty hate us more now than they have in the past. However, the free world is just fine with American citizens. I don't know how much you travel internationally, but between myself, my family, and close friends I'd say I get a fairly diverse view on what is happening in the world today.

If there is anything that upsets the citizens of the world it is the refusal of Americans to learn the customs and language of the countries they visit. People don't hate us, although many are jealous of us, especially in South America and Africa. Oh, and Eastern Europeans don't understand why we are trying to become more Socialist. The Muslim world is not pleased with us, but if you think that is something that GWB started you need a history lesson.

BHOs biggest lie? "and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." LIES!!!!!!

Bigjbear you are spot on. I have travelled, worked, and lived in foreign countries. Most people who think that foreigners hate us are listening to the anti-American left here at home and the more vocal Europeans who take every opportunity to slam us based upon pure jealousy. In fact, the root of most anti-American rhetoric is not born out of logical thought, American actions, but pure envy. For a country so hated, we sure have a lot of people dying to get in.

For a country so hated, we sure have a lot of people dying to get in.

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER! :bow: