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TheBeast_88K5
04-16-2012, 05:10 PM
I'm looking for a simple thread, or link, to the differences in doubler combos.
Is there such a thread?

:dunno:

pblaze725
04-16-2012, 05:14 PM
Pre-subscribed.
I don't want to miss this one.

MTBLAZER89
04-16-2012, 05:39 PM
There really isnt too much to compare.

The 203/205 was the standard and only option for a long time as far as stock cases go. This gives you a 2:1 and 4:1 option. The addition of the Lomax 3:1 kit for the 205 gives you 2:1, 3:1, and 6:1 but is currently unavailable and $1000 plus which is in my opinion when combined with the doubler kit, inputs (if needed), outputs (if needed) and price of the cases if you have to buy them approaching the price of an Atlas, Black box, Stak etc.

The other option is the 241/205. D&D was the only company for a long time that manufactured anything, but ORD has a kit forthcoming and I believe will allow you to use the much more common figure 8 205. The D&D kit requires the 86+ round pattern case which is more difficult to find and usually more $$. This setup will give you 2:1 (205), 2.7:1 (241) and 5.4:1 ranges. Same as an Atlas 4 speed. The 241/205 is a good setup IMO and I am currently piecing one together. It requires a little more fab work with having to cut the case up and tig weld the opening of the 241. The Driver drop 241's are plentiful and with ORD's kit including the figure 8 pattern 205 those are fairly simple to find as well.

There are other variations like the 231/205 and the 231/Dana 300 which are comparable, but the 231 has a smaller planetary set than the 241. The above to are kinda the (fullsize) options. Otherwise you have the Black box, Klune V, Stak, Atlas for aftermarket underdrives/multi speed cases.

NorCal_Chris
04-16-2012, 05:39 PM
241/205 is the only way to go imo.


the heavy 203 with it's not even 2-1 ratio seems like a waste now.

The 241 double kit is only around 499 too
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=696803

Avery4jc
04-16-2012, 05:46 PM
I know I'm highlighting what Brian said but the 241/205 gives you the most flexibility and is a lot lighter than the traditional 203/205 doubler.
If you don't want to mess with all the fab work involved with cutting the 241 case apart then a black box/205 will give you the same exact results and is bolt on.

imiceman44
04-16-2012, 05:57 PM
I know I'm highlighting what Brian said but the 241/205 gives you the most flexibility and is a lot lighter than the traditional 203/205 doubler.
If you don't want to mess with all the fab work involved with cutting the 241 case apart then a black box/205 will give you the same exact results and is bolt on.
The black box, and before them the KluneV are a 241 planetary in a custom box, which actually makes it stronger, but more expensive.
I too believe the 241/205 or any 241/2xx would be a good doubler and I bet cheaper than a 203/ 205.
But I am going to assume that the OP was asking about the different suppliers of the 203/205 doublers, comparison between quality, price and ease of use, but I could be wrong.:dunno:

Avery4jc
04-16-2012, 06:03 PM
The black box, and before them the KluneV are a 241 planetary in a custom box, which actually makes it stronger, but more expensive.
I too believe the 241/205 or any 241/2xx would be a good doubler and I bet cheaper than a 203/ 205.
But I am going to assume that the OP was asking about the different suppliers of the 203/205 doublers, comparison between quality, price and ease of use, but I could be wrong.:dunno:

I know, that's why I said it gives the same exact results (implying gearing selection).

I think he's looking for a comparison of the different case combinations.

TheBeast_88K5
04-16-2012, 06:15 PM
Nah... MTblazer89 hit it on the head.

He explained everything I needed to know!
Thanks, MT!!!

BoondocK5
04-16-2012, 06:18 PM
Having built my own 241/205 Doubler may make me a little biased.
But, I thought it would be a good project. It turned out being rather stressful for me( I worry and brood over stupid ****, for way too long)

Plus, when it came to the intermediate shaft, I had to basically plan, design, draw, and then describe to the Engineers at RCV Performance, what the shaft did and what it had to withstand.
Then I was at their mercy for what seemed like forever, about 9 weeks for them to deliver it.
But, it appears to function as advertised.
RCV Performance also guarantees the shaft against breakage, lifetime guarantee. 'Nuff said.

But in the end it was worth it, I got the doubler I wanted, learned alot along the way and made a good friend along the way too, David Burgess (sixb)


If it were not for David and his machine work-expertise, it would probably have been alot more stressful than it was. My hat is off to David:bow:

Check out the build at the bottom of my signature...(breaks arm, patting self on back:doah::D)

Deuling
04-16-2012, 06:22 PM
Well since they have been compared. From people who have built them what are the costs for a complete build of each and costs of these after market units like the atlas etc...???

BoondocK5
04-16-2012, 06:29 PM
I figure mine cost me about $600.00 total Not including trade labor for some machine work.
Plus I have the satisfaction of having built/designed it myself, with alot of help from sixb, David Burgess was in on most of the design and machining phase of it.

BoondocK5
04-16-2012, 06:54 PM
Is the ORD 241 kit out yet?

MTBLAZER89
04-16-2012, 06:56 PM
Is the ORD 241 kit out yet?

Not that I've seen. I have been watching cause I may just spring for the kit on mine and bypass the headache

blazinzuk
04-16-2012, 06:57 PM
Just more info that I think is right
ORD kit is the shortest

D&D kit is the longest,

NWF is the only one that lets you clock it to whatever you want basically and from what I have heard is just a touch longer than ORDs.

FWIW I have a D&D 203/205 I like it just fine but if I was shorter I think I probably would have gone with ORDs, D&Ds is also cheaper than ORDs

BoondocK5
04-16-2012, 07:05 PM
Not that I've seen. I have been watching cause I may just spring for the kit on mine and bypass the headache


I don't blame you one bit. After the headache of mine, I'm super hesitant to start anything near as complicated.

It was a giant PITA!

That said, I have another Intermediate shaft identical to the one in the doubler I built.

I've had several requests to "build one" for other people. I have had to respectfully decline.
It just takes too long for me to do anything that I'm being paid to do, and I don't want to disappoint.
Plus, mine is unproven. I have not officially driven it yet.

jt512
04-16-2012, 07:16 PM
Not that I've seen. I have been watching cause I may just spring for the kit on mine and bypass the headache

They have posted some pics of it in that pirate thread and IIRC someone from there even listed a price (I think :D).

BoondocK5
04-16-2012, 07:18 PM
They have posted some pics of it in that pirate thread and IIRC someone from there even listed a price (I think :D).

Link?:D

jt512
04-16-2012, 07:19 PM
Link?:D

Gimmie a minute , I'll see if I can find it :D






Here ya go

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1010750. Post 9

BoondocK5
04-16-2012, 07:31 PM
Thanks man!:thumb:

I have a username there. The whole (hole?) "As the PBB turns." just pisses me off.
Homey don't do drama! Least not on da interweb!:D

1-tonmudder
04-16-2012, 07:32 PM
To my knowledge I was the first to post a build thread on a 241/205 doubler cause I searched hell and 1/2 of georgia for any info on this set up.As usual the more thats built the better they get and I've have saw others that have done things different than the way I did mine,most for the better.Since mines a trailer queen I mostly just use the 2.7:1 or the 5.4:1.Mine will actually slide the tires if I shift the 400 from drive to first w both cases in low.It also has pretty good compression braking.I built one cause it was more low for less dough and nobody (that I could find) had done one.

BoondocK5
04-16-2012, 07:37 PM
To my knowledge I was the first to post a build thread on a 241/205 doubler cause I searched hell and 1/2 of georgia for any info on this set up.As usual the more thats built the better they get and I've have saw others that have done things different than the way I did mine,most for the better.Since mines a trailer queen I mostly just use the 2.7:1 or the 5.4:1.Mine will actually slide the tires if I shift the 400 from drive to first w both cases in low.It also has pretty good compression braking.I built one cause it was more low for less dough and nobody (that I could find) had done one.

Yep! :bow::bow:
It was yours that gave me the idea, and I think ssyork's had an idea or two that I incorporated into mine also.

MTBLAZER89
04-16-2012, 07:39 PM
Gimmie a minute , I'll see if I can find it :D






Here ya go

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1010750. Post 9

Yep Ive been following that thread. It seems the figure 8 pattern case is available with some lead time, but the round pattern is still in work. I have the round pattern case.

jt512
04-16-2012, 07:50 PM
Yep Ive been following that thread. It seems the figure 8 pattern case is available with some lead time, but the round pattern is still in work. I have the round pattern case.

That may be next years project for my K30, I already have the round 205, a spare short 32 input laying around, so at some point I'll find a 241 and go from there.

jt512
04-16-2012, 07:52 PM
Thanks man!:thumb:

I have a username there. The whole (hole?) "As the PBB turns." just pisses me off.
Homey don't do drama! Least not on da interweb!:D

I just lurk, read tech and look at pictures over there, I think my post count is around 10 :haha:

MTBLAZER89
04-16-2012, 07:59 PM
That may be next years project for my K30, I already have the round 205, a spare short 32 input laying around, so at some point I'll find a 241 and go from there.

Yep I have the round 205 and am picking up my 241 soon for $60. Just need to find the short 32 spl input.

76zimmer
04-16-2012, 08:00 PM
Well since they have been compared. From people who have built them what are the costs for a complete build of each and costs of these after market units like the atlas etc...???

IF you start with a trans of your choice and the 203 together, that eliminates some cost up front.

If like me, you decide to upgrade all shafts to 32 spline-1410's, it costs a considerable amount more, but for a SBC I wouldn't worry about it.
Then you got the triple sticks, which after some convincing, I agree that they are the best way to go, with exception of Ryokens cable shifters.
I think I have about 2K into my setup including everything from the trans output to t/c outputs front and rear.

Deuling
04-16-2012, 08:05 PM
IF you start with a trans of your choice and the 203 together, that eliminates some cost up front.

If like me, you decide to upgrade all shafts to 32 spline-1410's, it costs a considerable amount more, but for a SBC I wouldn't worry about it.
Then you got the triple sticks, which after some convincing, I agree that they are the best way to go, with exception of Ryokens cable shifters.
I think I have about 2K into my setup including everything from the trans output to t/c outputs front and rear.

So at that amount of $$$$ what was your reasoning to not just buy an atlas or something along those lines? You would save alot of time doing it that way correct?

jt512
04-16-2012, 08:07 PM
Yep I have the round 205 and am picking up my 241 soon for $60. Just need to find the short 32 spl input.

:D that's funny, my local pick n pulls any t case is $60. I ended up with the short input after hours of research told me that was the way to go for my 4500/ round 205 behind my 12 valve, once mocked up and I saw the amount of material that had to be removed :doah: I went with the AA spacer and the long input setup. Something about weakening the tail housing of a trans behind a 1000+ ftlb engine didn't feel right :dunno: :D

63chevyll
04-16-2012, 08:45 PM
For the hell off it, has anyone here ran an atlas? Just curious if CK5 ers would put one in their rig.

I like the 241/205 option and extra gear but for me the initial price for any doubler is either paid with time or money.

And only Cuz I don't know, is there any issues with the 241 being aluminum and weaker? I'm only saying weaker due to the case.

blazinzuk
04-16-2012, 11:51 PM
I know several guys running atlas cases and i really like em. Would run one in a second if i could afford a 4 speed one, i use horton for all kinds of wheelin so having 2 ranges is pretty handy. I have been with rigs that need to shift into high range for bits of the trail or are constantly stoppinng to shift when my single low works perfect there, then just engage double low when needed.

I think my kit was around 550 my cases cost 50 bucks and i did a triple stick for about 20 bucks crossmembers were about 30 bucks so my whole doubler cost me 650 so quite a long ways from an atlas

Deuling
04-17-2012, 04:42 AM
For the hell off it, has anyone here ran an atlas? Just curious if CK5 ers would put one in their rig.

I like the 241/205 option and extra gear but for me the initial price for any doubler is either paid with time or money.

And only Cuz I don't know, is there any issues with the 241 being aluminum and weaker? I'm only saying weaker due to the case.

Gregs got one...:whistle:

TDAWG1
04-17-2012, 05:01 AM
ORD now has a new Style they have made that offers more Gear, is 60lbs lighter and probablly 99% stronger. its called the Magnum Box. call and as about it, Its pretty amazing what they have assembled over there.
I have heard stories of Failures of many kinds some small some Big with other styles of Doublers, Not so much with the ORD doubler. However, Im sure some of that is use and or how it was installed. So What i can tell you is I have an ORD gen1 Doubler and with exception to the weight ( not that big a deal) or the fact that I dont have that Shiney Billit piece that they have on the newer stuff. Im extatic about it. I Love everything about it, sometimes I wish it had this or did tha but thats everything we build or use isnt it? Great Topic Look forward to seeing what else comes up.

TDAWG1
04-17-2012, 05:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 63chevyll http://coloradok5.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3089422#post3089422)
For the hell off it, has anyone here ran an atlas? Just curious if CK5 ers would put one in their rig.

I like the 241/205 option and extra gear but for me the initial price for any doubler is either paid with time or money.

And only Cuz I don't know, is there any issues with the 241 being aluminum and weaker? I'm only saying weaker due to the case.


There are a few folks on here running the Atlas so hopefully they post up. Ive heard some neg. but mostly pos. about the unit.

mrdrinksalil
04-17-2012, 01:13 PM
ORD now has a new Style they have made that offers more Gear, is 60lbs lighter and probablly 99% stronger. its called the Magnum Box. call and as about it, Its pretty amazing what they have assembled over there.
.

:ears::sign6:

TheBeast_88K5
04-17-2012, 01:17 PM
Hope no one minds the title change.... :dunno:

82355
04-17-2012, 01:30 PM
I'm mad as hell!

Not really . . . . .

Martin

76zimmer
04-17-2012, 02:08 PM
So at that amount of $$$$ what was your reasoning to not just buy an atlas or something along those lines? You would save alot of time doing it that way correct?

a 2 speed was like 2300$, mine is a 3speed. 1:1. 2:1, 4:1 ratios.
1410's outputs, and 32 spline throughout.

Perhaps if I knew then what I know now, I would have, but for me it was a learning curve, and the snowball kept rolling as I went along!

Stephen
04-17-2012, 05:52 PM
so much to regurgitate here, and I need to call it for the night.
clif notes:

you can't really compare pricing for any of this stuff to an atlas when what you end up with has the strength of a 205 and multiple gear ratios. Having 2 or more different low ranges really does make a difference.

We have the "241 stock rotation to fig8 205 2 inch up rotation" kits are ready to ship right now. Other versions are drawn and design work is finished, it's a matter of getting it all in production. Rotations options are pre-set since the bolt patterns all have to mesh.

any underdrive system using a 32 spline intermediate shaft is not what I would consider a true 4 speed in anything big since the intermediate shaft is always a weak link when the front box is in low and the rear is in high. Not everyone will break it but everyone should know about it.

The Magnum box fixes this problem and gives you a true 4 speed since the shaft between the underdrive gearset and the 205 is now big enough to support the underdrive's torque output. It's also 6.25" long, all new parts, user indexable, 33#, and generally pisses excellence.:pimp:
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x439/ORD2/ORD%20Transfer%20Cases/2012-04-06_13-50-00_429.jpg

behind a TH350:
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x439/ORD2/ORD%20Transfer%20Cases/2012-03-24_16-22-19_866.jpg

pic of the "Chop Box" display from EJS:
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x439/ORD2/ORD%20Transfer%20Cases/2012-04-06_13-49-28_7.jpg

groovy75
04-17-2012, 05:59 PM
Wow, thats siiick!

wayne
04-17-2012, 06:22 PM
For the hell off it, has anyone here ran an atlas? Just curious if CK5 ers would put one in their rig.

I like the 241/205 option and extra gear but for me the initial price for any doubler is either paid with time or money.

And only Cuz I don't know, is there any issues with the 241 being aluminum and weaker? I'm only saying weaker due to the case.

I run a Atlas 4spd. It works great and I really like it better then the standard Doubler. Toss it in low and even down the steep hills it just chugs along at a crawl.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/38298_1479038049770_1048346720_31388105_8355201_n. jpg

mrdrinksalil
04-17-2012, 07:06 PM
Ask and he shall recieve! Guess I shoulda came up and said hi at KOH. Did I miss something or is the info on this stuff not posted elsewhere?

TheBeast_88K5
04-17-2012, 07:12 PM
Ask and he shall recieve! Guess I shoulda came up and said hi at KOH. Did I miss something or is the info on this stuff not posted elsewhere?

Oh it's elsewhere....

But it's scattered about.
I don't have the time to search all over the boards.
I have a lot of stuff goin on right now.
Normally I do the research myself....


But, with all you experienced doubler owner's, out there... :whistle:
Why not ask...? :dunno:


Thanks again, guy's! :waytogo:

mrdrinksalil
04-17-2012, 07:41 PM
That was more directed to stephen about their new 241/205 stuff and the magnum box

Deuling
04-17-2012, 08:06 PM
I dont see this magnum box on the ord website... How much is it?

38377k5
04-17-2012, 08:15 PM
I dont see this magnum box on the ord website... How much is it?

That was more directed to stephen about their new 241/205 stuff and the magnum box

Details should come very soon :deal:

Deuling
04-18-2012, 04:25 AM
Details should come very soon :deal:

Bada$$ it looks killer.

TDAWG1
04-18-2012, 05:44 AM
so much to regurgitate here, and I need to call it for the night.
clif notes:

you can't really compare pricing for any of this stuff to an atlas when what you end up with has the strength of a 205 and multiple gear ratios. Having 2 or more different low ranges really does make a difference.

We have the "241 stock rotation to fig8 205 2 inch up rotation" kits are ready to ship right now. Other versions are drawn and design work is finished, it's a matter of getting it all in production. Rotations options are pre-set since the bolt patterns all have to mesh.

any underdrive system using a 32 spline intermediate shaft is not what I would consider a true 4 speed in anything big since the intermediate shaft is always a weak link when the front box is in low and the rear is in high. Not everyone will break it but everyone should know about it.

The Magnum box fixes this problem and gives you a true 4 speed since the shaft between the underdrive gearset and the 205 is now big enough to support the underdrive's torque output. It's also 6.25" long, all new parts, user indexable, 33#, and generally pisses excellence.:pimp:
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x439/ORD2/ORD%20Transfer%20Cases/2012-04-06_13-50-00_429.jpg

behind a TH350:
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x439/ORD2/ORD%20Transfer%20Cases/2012-03-24_16-22-19_866.jpg

pic of the "Chop Box" display from EJS:
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x439/ORD2/ORD%20Transfer%20Cases/2012-04-06_13-49-28_7.jpg
Stephen... Sorry if I jumped the Gun on this. I just saw all this Doubler talk and got all excited and well Folk had to know.... :whistle::o:wink1::thumb::popcorn:

ChrisPerry
04-18-2012, 09:55 AM
Details should come very soon :deal:

Subscribed! I'm getting ready for my doubler build and I think I might need a Magnum for my monster. :whistle:

63chevyll
04-18-2012, 10:06 AM
Great info Guys. Awesome thread.

Stephen
04-18-2012, 12:55 PM
Subscribed! I'm getting ready for my doubler build and I think I might need a Magnum for my monster. :whistle:

That's funny, we need a Magnum in everything here too. :doah:

Except the cheap truck is getting a Chop Box. I'm really excited for the Ultra4 car, losing 65+ pounds, about 3 inches and dropping some drag will be a nice improvement. And it might be nice having the 2.72 gear, it might work out to be a good fast crawl gear.

ChrisPerry
04-18-2012, 01:07 PM
That's funny, we need a Magnum in everything here too. :doah:

Except the cheap truck is getting a Chop Box. I'm really excited for the Ultra4 car, losing 65+ pounds, about 3 inches and dropping some drag will be a nice improvement. And it might be nice having the 2.72 gear, it might work out to be a good fast crawl gear.

Any Idea on when you'll figure the cost on the Magnum?

chulisohombre
04-18-2012, 01:27 PM
very nice.i wish i had a need for one so i could be one of the cool kids too.lol.maybe in the future.

TheBeast_88K5
04-18-2012, 01:30 PM
very nice.i wish i had a need for one so i could be one of the cool kids too.lol.maybe in the future.

I needed to know the differences, for my next build. :thumb:

Greg72
04-18-2012, 01:56 PM
I'm looking for a simple thread, or link, to the differences in doubler combos.
Is there such a thread?

:dunno:


There have been some epic threads about this over the past 10 years I've been on this site, probably the best search keywords are:

"crawl ratio"
"ideal gearing"
etc.
(Check the CoG forum too)

I am a firm believer that you need to start with the big picture and work backwards to the transfercase....

If you build a "trail only" rig, then it doesn't matter how impractical the gearing is for anything besides trail riding. However, for a dual-purpose truck the gearing can completely ruin the driveability of the truck on the street.

I always start with a target highway MPH that I'd like to be able to cruise at.... then, based on the transmission (OD vs. non-OD) you can pick an axle gear that will give you the appropriate cruising RPMs to maximize mileage (HA!) and keep you from spinning your engine to the moon just to go 65MPH.... that gets old in a hurry, and you'll go bankrupt trying to keep fuel in the tank.

Based on your tire size, and your particular style you will want to pick a reduction box setup that gets you somewhere in the neighborhood of "1-inch of ground travel / 1 RPM of engine".... you can search a bit more for how this works, but basically you'd like a crawl ratio that is closely matched to your tire circumference...... a 119" circumference tire (38" diameter) would do well with approximately 119:1 overall reduction. For slower, technical crawling you might want more crawl ratio....for faster, looser ground a little more wheelspeed would help (lower CR).

The point though, is that you really need to look at the whole picture (tire diameter, rear axle gearing AND transfercase gearing) to build something that will work everywhere you need it to... IMHO, the deepest gearing belongs in the transfercase, not in the axles.


-G

80' 427
04-18-2012, 02:10 PM
Maybe I think wrong but I am planning on keeping my 4.11s and just add more gearing with the transfercase. 4.11s and 39s go right down the road and with low gear in the 4 speed still work fine. Then I can just keep pulling levers till it is slow enough.

K5-CJ5
04-18-2012, 02:12 PM
Great info subscribed! I definitely need me a Magnum!

TheBeast_88K5
04-18-2012, 03:30 PM
Maybe I think wrong but I am planning on keeping my 4.11s and just add more gearing with the transfercase. 4.11s and 39s go right down the road and with low gear in the 4 speed still work fine. Then I can just keep pulling levers till it is slow enough.

^That's the super-condensed version of what Greg just said...

"The gearing belongs in the t-case", particularly. :thumb:

I know that I'm gearing the buggy OUT.

We do dirt/rock wheeling, locally.
But, my obsession is the sand.

The buggy has to go fast, suck up the whoops,
and be geared low enough (In the axles) to blast up Comp Hill. :waytogo:

Having enough crawl, in the box, would be nice too! :D
But, in all honesty, I just don't want those diesel's showing me up, up the mountain....

I REFUSE to not make it in a buggy, when Diesels can do it! :haha:

ion
04-18-2012, 03:32 PM
This is either going to sound weird or freaking retarded,

But can you make instead of a 203/205 doubler a 205/205 doubler?

76zimmer
04-18-2012, 03:45 PM
I think the case would be the biggest issue, but as others have done you could cut it up to fit...I know the 203 has been stacked a couple times with a 205 output.
Look at the mother of all doublers crossmember thread.


link (http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233677&highlight=doubler+crossmember)

blazinzuk
04-18-2012, 03:58 PM
This is either going to sound weird or freaking retarded,

But can you make instead of a 203/205 doubler a 205/205 doubler?

The 203/205 is just soooooo easy. being that you unbolt the back of the 203 no mods to the case are needed. Thats why its so popular, besides that anyone with a th 350 can find a 203 for CHEAP, also easy and cheap to adapt the 203 to a 700

The 203 reduction section makes a 205 reduction look small and weak.

I don't need lower gears for what I do and my current tire size, but I will go to a 241/205 due to some happy happy circumstances that will be reveled to the masses at a later date. Its nice it will save some weight.

I have 4.56s in my axle gears and run the 205 in low in sand and mud and most trail riding. Its perfect IMHO, sometimes in the sand I wish my motor would rev past 4500 rpm ( stupid stock HEI) but what rig can't use more power in the sand. Muds the same thing.

Reduction belongs in the t-cases. Axle gears should be looked at totally differently.

cowboy_tech
04-18-2012, 04:15 PM
Subscribed...

Avery4jc
04-18-2012, 10:37 PM
The Magnum box fixes this problem and gives you a true 4 speed since the shaft between the underdrive gearset and the 205 is now big enough to support the underdrive's torque output. It's also 6.25" long, all new parts, user indexable, 33#, and generally pisses excellence.:pimp:
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x439/ORD2/ORD%20Transfer%20Cases/2012-04-06_13-50-00_429.jpg

behind a TH350:
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x439/ORD2/ORD%20Transfer%20Cases/2012-03-24_16-22-19_866.jpg


So how is it different than NWF's Black box? Looks just like it and appears to use the same gears judging by the ratio options.

mrdrinksalil
04-19-2012, 05:48 AM
hopefully its cheaper. :thumb:

ChrisPerry
04-19-2012, 11:17 AM
So how is it different than NWF's Black box? Looks just like it and appears to use the same gears judging by the ratio options.

Looks like it's 1" shorter and about 14lbs lighter and hopefully a bit cheaper.

BoondocK5
04-19-2012, 04:49 PM
any underdrive system using a 32 spline intermediate shaft is not what I would consider a true 4 speed in anything big since the intermediate shaft is always a weak link when the front box is in low and the rear is in high. Not everyone will break it but everyone should know about it.


Stephan, I love what you guys did for the Magnum box, Ultra cool!:bow::bow:

Could I ask where you got your Intermediate shafts?
If you prefer not to say I understand...
The reason I ask is the outfit that made mine has placed their "lifetime Guarantee against breakage" on it.
I think Chris and I had a couple of private conversations about this. I was just curious if you guys were using the same manufacturer.

I'm more worried about the outer case exploding than I am the intermediate shaft. If I am forced into rebuilding the doubler due to breakage of any kind, I will be looking for a way to make the case from machined steel...

Stephen
04-19-2012, 06:04 PM
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x439/ORD2/ORD%20Transfer%20Cases/2012-04-19_17-59-38_992.jpg
That's a cute little "lifetime warranty" on that bottom shaft.
We're going with YOU DON'T NEED A WARRANTY! :pimp:

Seriously now though, that's why we call it the MAGNUM. The planet hub spline is the weak point in the system and it's over 1 5/8". You can't break it. This lets you treat this system as a true 4 speed, meaning you can do whatever you want in any gear. Any other system is going to have limitations on how hard you can run in the 2.72 low gear, this one does not.

It's not built to be cheap or compete with any other underdrive, it's built to be the strongest most versatile transfer case system there is and the price really isn't out of line for what it does. In fact we might be selling it cheap to start with. Complete Magnum box WITH input conversion for the NP205 is $1990. It comes with free TCT too.

gonefishin
04-19-2012, 06:56 PM
Subscribed for all the info I can get while I wait for ord to finish the round 205/241 doubler kits. Anyone know if its made for the long or short input on the 205? I am trying to get everything ready

blazinzuk
04-19-2012, 07:16 PM
I want one and not just because I can tell people my box is a MAGNUM!

Nice piece but the good ol doubler still wins for cheap and awesome.

jms
04-19-2012, 07:39 PM
so much to regurgitate here, and I need to call it for the night.
clif notes:

you can't really compare pricing for any of this stuff to an atlas when what you end up with has the strength of a 205 and multiple gear ratios. Having 2 or more different low ranges really does make a difference.

We have the "241 stock rotation to fig8 205 2 inch up rotation" kits are ready to ship right now. Other versions are drawn and design work is finished, it's a matter of getting it all in production. Rotations options are pre-set since the bolt patterns all have to mesh.

any underdrive system using a 32 spline intermediate shaft is not what I would consider a true 4 speed in anything big since the intermediate shaft is always a weak link when the front box is in low and the rear is in high. Not everyone will break it but everyone should know about it.

The Magnum box fixes this problem and gives you a true 4 speed since the shaft between the underdrive gearset and the 205 is now big enough to support the underdrive's torque output. It's also 6.25" long, all new parts, user indexable, 33#, and generally pisses excellence.:pimp:
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x439/ORD2/ORD%20Transfer%20Cases/2012-04-06_13-50-00_429.jpg

behind a TH350:
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x439/ORD2/ORD%20Transfer%20Cases/2012-03-24_16-22-19_866.jpg

pic of the "Chop Box" display from EJS:
http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x439/ORD2/ORD%20Transfer%20Cases/2012-04-06_13-49-28_7.jpg

Yeah, well. Great :rolleyes:.

Cool move, now that I've finally convinced myself that a 203/205 doubler isn't really in my cards :rolleyes:, and decided to ditch that semi-rebuilt 205 I happen to have, and got a 241 with the game plan to do a slightly clocked t'case with an SYE.

Where was this when I wanted an Atlas for my 50th birthday, just to find out that an Atlas doesn't sufficiently lubricate the planetaries in 2hi at 75mph on the freeway?

Well?

In a perfect maneuver of distraction, I'm now committed to putting a 5-speed in my wife's FJ40....

:D

38377k5
04-19-2012, 08:09 PM
Subscribed for all the info I can get while I wait for ord to finish the round 205/241 doubler kits. Anyone know if its made for the long or short input on the 205? I am trying to get everything ready

Short input

gonefishin
04-19-2012, 08:37 PM
Short input

Oh that sucks I already twin sticked it sealed it up and filled it full of oil

miniwally
04-20-2012, 08:46 AM
Where was this when I wanted an Atlas for my 50th birthday, just to find out that an Atlas doesn't sufficiently lubricate the planetaries in 2hi at 75mph on the freeway?

:D

Really?

There are a couple of guys running atlas 4 speeds in the desert/koh that run the 2:1 all the time with like 4:10 axle gears and 4 speed autos. then in the rocks they shift the planetaries in.

Meaning they run the planetaries in hi for desert racing and they have held up for several years now. One of them completed V2R in 09' which was a 1,000 miles.

In all honesty Micheal for what you do and like to do with your blazer a 241 SYE is good. A 205 would suck a bit more gas and shorten your range and I know that you like to drive your truck to and from the trails and also do longer exploring trips.

A happy wife is a happy life. Just keep saying that over and over and over:haha:

mrdrinksalil
04-20-2012, 08:49 AM
Ok so cliff notes..

Correct me if I'm wrong. On the Magnum box:


Stronger than an Atlas 4speed and NWF Black Box because if the intermediate shaft.
~$1000 Cheaper than an Atlas 4speed because of readily available NP205
~4-5" longer than a Atlas 4Speed and ~33lbs heavier (~100lbs Lighter than a 203/205)
generally pisses excellence
:woot:

TheBeast_88K5
04-20-2012, 08:54 AM
Man,.... This thread really panned out. :D

Stephen
04-20-2012, 09:58 AM
Ok so cliff notes..

Correct me if I'm wrong. On the Magnum box:


Stronger than an Atlas 4speed of Black Box because if the intermediate shaft. And because the 205 is bigger and beefier.
~$1000 Cheaper than an Atlas 4speed because of readily available NP205
~4-5" longer than a Atlas 4Speed actually about 2" longer than the shortest atlas4, similar to the "long tail version"and ~33lbs heavier (~100lbs Lighter than a 203/205)comparison weights get kind of fuzzy with iron vs. alum. adapters and such but this is about right
This kind of falls in the "stength" catagory but the Magnum lets you use the 2.72 low as hard as you want without worry about the intermediate shaft strength
generally pisses excellence
:woot:

massaged it for you a little

mrdrinksalil
04-20-2012, 10:08 AM
Nice. So when do you put mine up in the parts giveaway board?!

miniwally
04-20-2012, 10:16 AM
Ok so cliff notes..

Correct me if I'm wrong. On the Magnum box:


Stronger than an Atlas 4speed of Black Box because if the intermediate shaft.
~$1000 Cheaper than an Atlas 4speed because of readily available NP205
~4-5" longer than a Atlas 4Speed and ~33lbs heavier (~100lbs Lighter than a 203/205)
generally pisses excellence
:woot:
Stephen beat me to it.
I'm not sure if it is "stronger" than an atlas 4 speed cause I don't know how they are linking the planet box to the gear box in the atlas, However it certainly is NOT weaker. Yes in the case of NWF girth wins

Looking at advances site they have a a 16.75" length and a 18.75" length. Those have to do with the output style. but I don't think that includes the transmission adapter, so add some amount of length(probably varies by transmission) to the atlas lengths. So i say the lengths are probably about the same at the end of the day.:dunno:

I have been fondling the parts for the last few months when I stop by the shop a few times a week. It's nice to see them moving out the door and the design work finishing.
I probably fondled your magnum before you did:haha::whistle:

mrdrinksalil
04-20-2012, 10:30 AM
I think this is the old atlas 4speed with the short output. Not sure if it got longer.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Atlas/images/Atlas%20length%20with%20yoke.jpg

Stephen
04-20-2012, 11:17 AM
And now for some general underdrive system tech.

Any time you underdrive a transfer case you have to consider the torque capacity of the intermediate shaft and transfer case input. It's intuitively obvious that anytime you double or triple the input torque on the input of a transfer case you stand a chance of breaking that input and this torque increase is exactly what you do with an underdrive.
So what we look at with a 205 specifically is that you have two 32 spline output shafts that are good for about 4000 ft-lb of torque (to use a round number) each. If the 205 is in high range you can put 8000 ft-lb into the 205 to reach the breaking strength of both outputs. Obviously this 8000 ft-lb is way over the strength of a 32 spline input since a 32 spline input is only good for the same 4000 ft-lb of torque. This is why it's bad to run most underdrive systems with the front box in low and the 205 in high

Let's mix this up and put the 205 in low range. Now we have a 2:1 torque multiplication between input and output so the 8000ft-lb that the output shafts can support can be generated by only 4000 ft-lb from the input.
input at 4Kft# * 2:1 gear reduction = 8Kft# split between the two outputs.

Fortunately the good old 203 doubler system has 2:1 gear ratios in both boxes so there is no reason to ever run the 203 in low and the 205 in high. This makes it easy to run it right all the time and as such it's a really tough system.

The problem comes in when we start using planets that are a 2.72 reduction. Now that front gear reduction is useful to use by itself and it's also a deeper reduction so it's harder on the intermediate shaft....

miniwally
04-20-2012, 11:17 AM
Advance had a re design of the 4 speed. They may have added length at that point. I could see pictures floating around of the old one still.

You pic doesn't work. Advance has the lengths on their website, I just don't know if that includes a transmission adapter or not.

I think the ORD length does. The adapter is built onto the range box.

mrdrinksalil
04-20-2012, 11:34 AM
pic should work now

miniwally
04-20-2012, 01:04 PM
http://www.advanceadapters.com/images/ecomm/products/large/ATLAS4_2011.jpg

I think your pic is the older version, the shifter is in a different location between your pic and this one.

BoondocK5
04-20-2012, 04:06 PM
And now for some general underdrive system tech.

Any time you underdrive a transfer case you have to consider the torque capacity of the intermediate shaft and transfer case input. It's intuitively obvious that anytime you double or triple the input torque on the input of a transfer case you stand a chance of breaking that input and this torque increase is exactly what you do with an underdrive.
So what we look at with a 205 specifically is that you have two 32 spline output shafts that are good for about 4000 ft-lb of torque (to use a round number) each. If the 205 is in high range you can put 8000 ft-lb into the 205 to reach the breaking strength of both outputs. Obviously this 8000 ft-lb is way over the strength of a 32 spline input since a 32 spline input is only good for the same 4000 ft-lb of torque. This is why it's bad to run most underdrive systems with the front box in low and the 205 in high

Let's mix this up and put the 205 in low range. Now we have a 2:1 torque multiplication between input and output so the 8000ft-lb that the output shafts can support can be generated by only 4000 ft-lb from the input.
input at 4Kft# * 2:1 gear reduction = 8Kft# split between the two outputs.

Fortunately the good old 203 doubler system has 2:1 gear ratios in both boxes so there is no reason to ever run the 203 in low and the 205 in high. This makes it easy to run it right all the time and as such it's a really tough system.

The problem comes in when we start using planets that are a 2.72 reduction. Now that front gear reduction is useful to use by itself and it's also a deeper reduction so it's harder on the intermediate shaft....


Stephan, please don't take this as a dig on the Magnum box, because it's not. I love what ya'll did with it.

Kind of long, but, a real question at the end.

When I built my 241/205, I built it because I wanted lower gearing and in no way could afford for the $2-3-4K for one of those uber cool boxes made by the big boys.
So, I resorted to what I always do, build what I can, the best I can.
I also had "heard" that there were issues with strength at the Intermediate shafts, when made in this configuration. It made sense mathematically.
To counter this, I went with the strongest shaft I could find. Not what I could afford, what I could find.
RCV Performance's "lifetime guarantee against breakage, no questions asked", spoke volumes to me.
They have a reputation for building axle shafts that just plain don't break.
I'm no metallurgist, just a mechanic who has bent his and someone else's fair share of wrenches.
I honestly cannot find anyone, anywhere, who has broken an intermediate shaft, in this configuration, not saying it couldn't happen, I just couldn't find any record of it. Even those cut down 241 main shafts seem to hold up, which surprised the hell out of me.
I completely understand the mathematics of the torque input vs output vs input.
I just don't see myself ever breaking that intermediate shaft in my 241/205 doubler. I don't do big blocks, nor do I get a case of the stupids while on the skinny pedal.
In fact the only wheeling experience I have is from no BS, 30 years ago as a kid when I enjoyed flogging the living daylights out of stock 76 blazer in corner canyon here in SLC, UT.
So, time will tell.

Now the question,
Just so no one wastes their hard earned $$$$ and time on a doubler that may break.
Can anyone honestly see the intermediate shaft, (the Lifetime Guarantee shaft) from RCV Performance, breaking, during what even the most inexperienced wheeler (probably me) will do to it in Moab, on even my worst day of AHAADD driving?

My answer, is probably not. I might explode the case, but I don't think I'll hurt that shaft.

Now, if I ever build a balls out, bomb proof rally rig, then yes, I want that Magnum box, it's just beastly strong and too freaking cool!

Stephen
04-20-2012, 04:35 PM
They did revise the the atlas 4 and it's a little longer now. The shifter configuration is a good way to tell which is which since that changed with the generations.

blazinzuk
04-20-2012, 05:29 PM
Matt if you run your 241 in low with your 205 in high alot, you probably won't break it right away but it will lead to enough fatigue that it will more than likely cause failure. It is generally accepted in almost any doubler ( there are tons out there) you should not run the range box in low with the transfer case in high. Although in some discussions I have had the concern is not with the male splines on the shaft but the female end of the conglomeration, being that the shaft will not break but will strip the splines on the input of the second case. The shaft is not necessarily the weak spot its where that shaft rides. Those splines were never designed for that kind of torque load.

Thats my take on it and it makes sense to me. Even more sense after I see what kind of shaft is being used on the Magnum ( sorry guys that name makes me giggle :D)

Stephen or Chris can correct me if I am totally off base

38377k5
04-20-2012, 06:01 PM
Stephan, please don't take this as a dig on the Magnum box, because it's not. I love what ya'll did with it.

Kind of long, but, a real question at the end.

When I built my 241/205, I built it because I wanted lower gearing and in no way could afford for the $2-3-4K for one of those uber cool boxes made by the big boys.
So, I resorted to what I always do, build what I can, the best I can.
I also had "heard" that there were issues with strength at the Intermediate shafts, when made in this configuration. It made sense mathematically.
To counter this, I went with the strongest shaft I could find. Not what I could afford, what I could find.
RCV Performance's "lifetime guarantee against breakage, no questions asked", spoke volumes to me.
They have a reputation for building axle shafts that just plain don't break.
I'm no metallurgist, just a mechanic who has bent his and someone else's fair share of wrenches.
I honestly cannot find anyone, anywhere, who has broken an intermediate shaft, in this configuration, not saying it couldn't happen, I just couldn't find any record of it. Even those cut down 241 main shafts seem to hold up, which surprised the hell out of me.
I completely understand the mathematics of the torque input vs output vs input.
I just don't see myself ever breaking that intermediate shaft in my 241/205 doubler. I don't do big blocks, nor do I get a case of the stupids while on the skinny pedal.
In fact the only wheeling experience I have is from no BS, 30 years ago as a kid when I enjoyed flogging the living daylights out of stock 76 blazer in corner canyon here in SLC, UT.
So, time will tell.

Now the question,
Just so no one wastes their hard earned $$$$ and time on a doubler that may break.
Can anyone honestly see the intermediate shaft, (the Lifetime Guarantee shaft) from RCV Performance, breaking, during what even the most inexperienced wheeler (probably me) will do to it in Moab, on even my worst day of AHAADD driving?

My answer, is probably not. I might explode the case, but I don't think I'll hurt that shaft.

Now, if I ever build a balls out, bomb proof rally rig, then yes, I want that Magnum box, it's just beastly strong and too freaking cool!

People break them, we've sold a couple shafts to people who broke theirs (who knows who made their shaft) and I know there have been companies that built 300M outputs for the Klune etc.

Having said that, I haven't broken mine yet and we have a 241 chop box kit so it's not like we don't appreciate that angle. That intermediate shaft is the weak link in the system but it's not made of glass.

We're catering to both: a cheaper, more do-it-yourself option that gets you the gearing in a strong package, and an end-all option that is the final word in strength with all new parts. We leave that choice up to you but either way we do it right and the gearing rocks!

82355
04-20-2012, 06:08 PM
Fortunately the good old 203 doubler system has 2:1 gear ratios in both boxes so there is no reason to ever run the 203 in low and the 205 in high. This makes it easy to run it right all the time and as such it's a really tough system.

Except for that there is only one shifter for the NP203 and it shifts much easier than an NP205.

Martin

imiceman44
04-20-2012, 06:35 PM
Except for that there is only one shifter for the NP203 and it shifts much easier than an NP205.

Martin

You don't need to put 2 shifters for the 205, it only has one shifter stock.:whistle:

BoondocK5
04-20-2012, 06:47 PM
People break them, we've sold a couple shafts to people who broke theirs (who knows who made their shaft) and I know there have been companies that built 300M outputs for the Klune etc.

Having said that, I haven't broken mine yet and we have a 241 chop box kit so it's not like we don't appreciate that angle. That intermediate shaft is the weak link in the system but it's not made of glass.

We're catering to both: a cheaper, more do-it-yourself option that gets you the gearing in a strong package, and an end-all option that is the final word in strength with all new parts. We leave that choice up to you but either way we do it right and the gearing rocks!

Thanks for being understanding Chris.
I really appreciate being able to discuss this without everyone getting all butt hurt.
You guys at ORD are true Professionals!:bow::bow:

So, uh, what is the total length on that "beastly shaft" for the Magnum box? AND, how much for just the shaft?

See where I'm going?:whistle:

ChrisPerry
04-20-2012, 06:56 PM
It's not built to be cheap or compete with any other underdrive, it's built to be the strongest most versatile transfer case system there is and the price really isn't out of line for what it does. In fact we might be selling it cheap to start with. Complete Magnum box WITH input conversion for the NP205 is $1990. It comes with free TCT too.

That's not too bad. I'm gonna have to save a bit more to get it tho. What's TCT?

sweetk30
04-20-2012, 07:00 PM
You don't need to put 2 shifters for the 205, it only has one shifter stock.:whistle:

but the 205 shifts so much better with 2 levers. :bow:

jms
04-20-2012, 09:27 PM
Really?

There are a couple of guys running atlas 4 speeds in the desert/koh that run the 2:1 all the time with like 4:10 axle gears and 4 speed autos. then in the rocks they shift the planetaries in.

Meaning they run the planetaries in hi for desert racing and they have held up for several years now. One of them completed V2R in 09' which was a 1,000 miles.

In all honesty Micheal for what you do and like to do with your blazer a 241 SYE is good. A 205 would suck a bit more gas and shorten your range and I know that you like to drive your truck to and from the trails and also do longer exploring trips.

A happy wife is a happy life. Just keep saying that over and over and over:haha:

Yes, based on available info 2 years ago, just when AA pulled the 4-speed for 'redesign'. I 'found' other uses for the money, though...:D

While I would like to know what 5.3:1 feels like, I'm fully aware that I don't need it - actually, what I'm going to need is a trailer to carry more gas for where I want to go next :D

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

miniwally
04-20-2012, 10:34 PM
what I'm going to need is a trailer to carry more gas for where I want to go next

And that's what I like about your style

82355
04-21-2012, 09:50 AM
You don't need to put 2 shifters for the 205, it only has one shifter stock.:whistle:

Yeah, and it doesn't shift that great either.

Martin

Stephen
04-21-2012, 07:50 PM
That's not too bad. I'm gonna have to save a bit more to get it tho. What's TCT?


I've been waiting for this, get ready....


























Paying attention Eric?






































Tuna Can Technology.:waytogo:

38377k5
04-21-2012, 09:41 PM
Tuna Can Technology.:waytogo:

That terminology is even new to me :haha:

Fat shaft, Tuna Can, whatever floats your boat :pimp:

ChrisPerry
04-21-2012, 09:58 PM
Tuna Can Technology.:waytogo:

Must be a good thing? :dunno: I never heard that term before, probably not a SoCal term.

Stephen
04-21-2012, 10:15 PM
Short and chubby, like a tuna can. No big secret. But it is funny.

Z71paramedic
04-21-2012, 10:17 PM
Short and chubby, like a tuna can. No big secret.

That's why everybody calls me Tuna Can...:haha::haha::haha:

mrdrinksalil
04-22-2012, 06:01 AM
I was wondering what that ment!!!

chulisohombre
04-22-2012, 07:03 AM
tct for life.lol

Deuling
04-22-2012, 02:08 PM
Short and chubby, like a tuna can. No big secret. But it is funny.

We call that a chode..... :whistle:

Stephen
04-23-2012, 10:00 PM
Thanks for being understanding Chris.
I really appreciate being able to discuss this without everyone getting all butt hurt.
You guys at ORD are true Professionals!:bow::bow:

So, uh, what is the total length on that "beastly shaft" for the Magnum box? AND, how much for just the shaft?

See where I'm going?:whistle:

Hmmmm, our existing shaft is too short for your box but I see where you're going and we have been there. It'll take a while but it's likely.

y5mgisi
05-14-2012, 02:27 PM
our existing shaft is too short for your box

:laughing:

Smokinthehippies
05-17-2012, 02:03 PM
:laughing:
lol. i was actually going to do that same quote.


and damn this thread. just when i get my sights set on the 241-205 setup. you spring something else on me.. :confused:

Stephen
05-17-2012, 03:50 PM
If it makes you feel better, I'm pretty sure the Magnum is going to be the end of the development process for a while, we have minor details to tune in but conceptually it may be as good as it's going to get for a dual T-case system. If you get one now, you could be done for good!

swedester
05-18-2012, 08:09 AM
subīd!now all we need is build info/tech on everyones homemade doublers to make it complete.
that magnum box sure looks interesting,guess I better start saving up some $...

Smokinthehippies
05-18-2012, 09:04 AM
If it makes you feel better, I'm pretty sure the Magnum is going to be the end of the development process for a while, we have minor details to tune in but conceptually it may be as good as it's going to get for a dual T-case system. If you get one now, you could be done for good!
i think i'd still go with the 241 setup.
i'll save the magnum for a "one day i **** gold coins build".

big_truxx
05-28-2012, 04:36 PM
It's not built to be cheap or compete with any other underdrive, it's built to be the strongest most versatile transfer case system there is and the price really isn't out of line for what it does. In fact we might be selling it cheap to start with. Complete Magnum box WITH input conversion for the NP205 is $1990. It comes with free TCT too.

I am slow so bear with me please. Is this just the Magnum front part w/ 205 input conversion? or a complete setup ready to bolt in?

Also this thread ROXX!! Very informative and good data.

I always saw myself building an ORD 203/205. To me weight/length is not an issue. It was to go into a heavy '80's crewcab dually with a 12v Cummins plus a plethora of weight adding devices. lol Something tht may be better off starting life out as a C70 double framed and duece & 1/2 axles lol

@ this point I will stop hyjacking this thread! :doah: I am of the mind of overkill it b4 u break it. I am now debating if I "need" a magnum :thinking: I didn't intend on using anything but all hi or all lo. But, I DO like strength.... I even started researching cryo frozen parts for strength a while back. Forgot what I researched, need to re-research again.

Needless to say I will be watching this thread! :waytogo:

P.S. ORD ROXX!!

jt512
06-14-2012, 10:34 AM
On a 241/205 setup, does the doner 241 have to be a pass side drop? Im starting to collect parts to do this and was wondering, I have a th400 with a round 205 behind it now, so does it matter if the 241 is pass or driver drop ?

38377k5
06-14-2012, 11:22 AM
On a 241/205 setup, does the doner 241 have to be a pass side drop? Im starting to collect parts to do this and was wondering, I have a th400 with a round 205 behind it now, so does it matter if the 241 is pass or driver drop ?

We're setup for driver's drop 241's regardless of what 205 you're using, we chose that because they are much more common than the passenger drop ones.

jt512
06-14-2012, 11:34 AM
We're setup for driver's drop 241's regardless of what 205 you're using, we chose that because they are much more common than the passenger drop ones.

Sweet :woot: our local pick n pulls are full of them.

Thanks Chris :bow:

Smokinthehippies
10-19-2012, 12:25 PM
just saw this brought up in a thread on pirate.


We're doing another run of them in December; John-JB Conversions


hmmm. a 241 or a magnum into a lomax 205! wouldnt that gearing be fun!

my understanding is if you call and talk to them there is a list you can get on? just a headsup for you guys.

nvrenuf
10-19-2012, 01:15 PM
I want one soooooooo bad. :drool:

The price is supposed to be around $2200.

Smokinthehippies
10-19-2012, 01:48 PM
on a doubler, low low would be 6:1 on the 203 version.
if my math is correct looks like a 241 with lomax would put it around 8.1 :1 !!

nvrenuf
10-19-2012, 02:02 PM
on a doubler....

With a 4spd :pimp:

MTBLAZER89
10-20-2012, 08:20 AM
Has anybody else seen Duffys new box? Its like the Black box, but you DIY with the planetaries from a 241. $699 seems like a pretty good price! My heart was really set on a Magnum box, but I could break this one twice :whistle:

Seems like a good budget option for additional gearing and somebody who isn't running intense amount of power and breaking 32 spline stuff often like me.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/motor-tranny-t-case-performance/1075295-billet-planetary-doubler-699-box4rocks.html

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachments/motor-tranny-t-case-performance/681014d1340911309-billet-planetary-doubler-699-box4rocks-img_0214.jpg

Kocher93
10-20-2012, 11:05 AM
I was looking at that box. So I buy a 241 and use the internals for that? And can that go infront of a a 241? If so that may be on my list.

MTBLAZER89
10-20-2012, 11:11 AM
I believe it is intended to go in front of a 205 or Dana 300.

Kocher93
10-20-2012, 11:25 AM
There goes my dreams, 241 241 doubler it is

MTBLAZER89
10-20-2012, 12:21 PM
I dont think the second case would like that very much :whistle:

Kocher93
10-20-2012, 12:29 PM
Well there goes my dreams again.....Syed 241 for me

Avery4jc
10-20-2012, 06:59 PM
Some of these combos are starting to be like the toyota guys and their 300:1+ setups. I have a 241/205 with 5.38's in my axles and with my 700r in first it's PLENTY low even with an auto. With a stick I'm sure it would "feel" even lower.

At some point I think it's just too much.

82355
10-22-2012, 02:30 PM
I am an SM465/NP203/NP205, 4.56's, on only a 38" tire and I wish I was lower geared in the transfer case. I think an NP241/NP205 doubler would be pretty decent.

Martin

Dheater
10-23-2012, 04:10 PM
Some of these combos are starting to be like the toyota guys and their 300:1+ setups. I have a 241/205 with 5.38's in my axles and with my 700r in first it's PLENTY low even with an auto. With a stick I'm sure it would "feel" even lower.

At some point I think it's just too much.

I had pretty low in an early bronco I built 181:1, it was good to have at times for crawling in Colorado. But it has its drawbacks as well, to much gas pedal equals broken parts. I really would not have gone any lower than that, that was crazy slow at an idle and the brakes would not hold it back.

Avery4jc
10-23-2012, 07:09 PM
I had pretty low in an early bronco I built 181:1, it was good to have at times for crawling in Colorado. But it has its drawbacks as well, to much gas pedal equals broken parts. I really would not have gone any lower than that, that was crazy slow at an idle and the brakes would not hold it back.

That's almost exactly where I'm at with my setup (175:1) and my brakes won't hold it back either. :D

Deuling
10-23-2012, 07:30 PM
Thats nuts. 4lo in my 208 is like almost too low for my liking. I mean i shift into od in my driveway.... Lol. You rock guys and ur goofy needs for super low gears :D

rdn2blazer
10-23-2012, 08:05 PM
I know nothing about T cases and all the gear ratio, T case talk makes my head hurt like a tumor is back in my head :doah:. I've never worked on a T case but would love to know all the inner working of one, but I NEED to see it first hand not read about it. I'm a visual guy, I need scamatics or beautiful color pictures starting at 1 and ending at xxx, then bolt it in.

I know exactly what I want to have as far as options in gear ratio and drivability on the road. I also know I want a bad ass setup off road, but I have no idea how to go about figuring this all out. I just want to hand my case off to someone who knows what their doing and give them money and get it back and it be correct and what I want period. I'll build the bad ass crossmember(s) but this T case stuff is like electrical to me, I just don't get it damnit.

I'm going to be runnung a mildly built TBI 454, I currently have a 350TH married to a 205 in my K5. I want a 4 speed TC with all the ubber bad ass 32 spline shafts, cause I want all the options regarding TC gear ratio available. I'm running 38" tall tires to start with, will end up with probably 42"s at some point. My axle ratio is 4:88's. I want to run a reasonable RPM at say 65. I was convinced I wanted an Atlas till now. I dig the ORD Magnum setup and the lower cost vs an Atlas.

My questions are, Do I have a good axle gear with the 4:88's?, or is it too deep for the size tires I have and eventually will have? Do I just yank the 205 and ship it to ORD and get it back all setup with the Magnum and be done with it? Should I run a TH400 behind the 454 instead of the TH350 trans? I have a TH400/205 out of my crew cab I can run. Is that the better setup? I also have an 4L80e trans I though would be the best option backed up with an Atlas. Now should I run the 4L80e and the Magnum setup instead? I thought the over drive on the 4L80e would compensate for the 4:88's.

I also have a 241 TC, but I have always herd a chain drive Aluminum case is weak. IS the 241 a chain drive even??? I like overkill so I like a cast iron 205 for it's brute strength. I really have to more room for tranny's, T cases's, big block's and axle's. PLEASE tell my the correct setup is the 454 with the 4L80e mated to the Magnum and my 4:88 are perfect for 38"s to 44"s with the OD trans.

I would like the keep the TH400/205 for my crew cab as it's the stock setup. I can sell the 350/205 or keep it for some other project some other time. What say you experts??????

TheBeast_88K5
10-23-2012, 09:42 PM
Christ almighty... 300:1!??? :eek1:


All I hear is *crunch*crunch*crunch*.. :doah:

82355
10-24-2012, 12:08 AM
You don't have to mash on the throttle when you are geared way down.

Martin

rdn2blazer
10-24-2012, 09:15 PM
I know nothing about T cases and all the gear ratio, T case talk makes my head hurt like a tumor is back in my head :doah:. I've never worked on a T case but would love to know all the inner working of one, but I NEED to see it first hand not read about it. I'm a visual guy, I need scamatics or beautiful color pictures starting at 1 and ending at xxx, then bolt it in.

I know exactly what I want to have as far as options in gear ratio and drivability on the road. I also know I want a bad ass setup off road, but I have no idea how to go about figuring this all out. I just want to hand my case off to someone who knows what their doing and give them money and get it back and it be correct and what I want period. I'll build the bad ass crossmember(s) but this T case stuff is like electrical to me, I just don't get it damnit.

I'm going to be runnung a mildly built TBI 454, I currently have a 350TH married to a 205 in my K5. I want a 4 speed TC with all the ubber bad ass 32 spline shafts, cause I want all the options regarding TC gear ratio available. I'm running 38" tall tires to start with, will end up with probably 42"s at some point. My axle ratio is 4:88's. I want to run a reasonable RPM at say 65. I was convinced I wanted an Atlas till now. I dig the ORD Magnum setup and the lower cost vs an Atlas.

My questions are, Do I have a good axle gear with the 4:88's?, or is it too deep for the size tires I have and eventually will have? Do I just yank the 205 and ship it to ORD and get it back all setup with the Magnum and be done with it? Should I run a TH400 behind the 454 instead of the TH350 trans? I have a TH400/205 out of my crew cab I can run. Is that the better setup? I also have an 4L80e trans I though would be the best option backed up with an Atlas. Now should I run the 4L80e and the Magnum setup instead? I thought the over drive on the 4L80e would compensate for the 4:88's.

I also have a 241 TC, but I have always herd a chain drive Aluminum case is weak. IS the 241 a chain drive even??? I like overkill so I like a cast iron 205 for it's brute strength. I really have to more room for tranny's, T cases's, big block's and axle's. PLEASE tell my the correct setup is the 454 with the 4L80e mated to the Magnum and my 4:88 are perfect for 38"s to 44"s with the OD trans.

I would like the keep the TH400/205 for my crew cab as it's the stock setup. I can sell the 350/205 or keep it for some other project some other time. What say you experts??????


:whistle:

Avery4jc
10-24-2012, 09:29 PM
Oh, I read all that yesterday then didn't respond. :)

To me it sounds like you're a perfect candidate for an aftermarket case. If you don't mind spending a little more look into an Atlas or Stakk.

You mentioned freeway speeds but that doesn't really come into play with the case gearing so you just need to be mindful of your axle gearing. Your 4.88's and a 40" tire in 3rd gear at 65 mph puts you around 2,600 rpm. Not bad for a truck that isn't built to drive down the freeway. :)

Yes the 241 you have is chain driven in stock form. The 241's are good cases, they ran them behind TONS of '88-'98 chevy trucks and suv's and a bunch of dodges, even behind the cummins/nv4500 combos. That being said the part you use out of it if you were to build it into a range box that goes between your th350 and 205 is just the 6 gear planetary gear set. So you don't have the chain anymore.

Hopefully that helped, if not ask again and I'll do my best to explain what I can.


All that being said I'd first decide what you really want to do with the truck. There are plenty of guys wheeling some hard trails without all these new fandangle geared to the moon setups. They probably work harder but they do it just fine and with a lot less money wrapped up into their rigs. If you plan on moderate trails maybe a simple 241 would work for you. It's almost 3:1 from the factory and is super plentiful. If you plan on crawling and want absolute control start gearing down... go as low as you can go. :)

82355
10-24-2012, 09:38 PM
An NP241 transfer case is an aluminum case, chain driven transfer case. They are not as weak as you would be led to believe.

With 38" tires, 4.88 gears would be okay, with 42" tires and overdrive, they would be a little high (low numerically) What axles do you have? What kind of off roading do you do (or plan on doing)?

Call ORD and just talk to them. They are helpful, and will build you whatever you need.

Martin

rdn2blazer
10-25-2012, 09:22 AM
An NP241 transfer case is an aluminum case, chain driven transfer case. They are not as weak as you would be led to believe.

With 38" tires, 4.88 gears would be okay, with 42" tires and overdrive, they would be a little high (low numerically) What axles do you have? What kind of off roading do you do (or plan on doing)?

Call ORD and just talk to them. They are helpful, and will build you whatever you need.

Martin


Axles are D60/14FF like everyone else for the most. I want a rig built for hard core use, and want to be able to wheel it that hard and have it survive if I DO wheel it that hard. I have cromoly 35 spline axles for my D60, will probably run an air locker up front, have a Detroit locker in the 14ff, and want to upgrade the stock axles there too. I bought a 35 spline locker for the rear so I'll be running 35 spline aftermarket axles out back as well. I know 300M 35 spline 14ff axles are available. I love overkill beef :D.

wasted wages
10-25-2012, 09:47 AM
GGGGRRRRRRRRRR............thanks ORD.......

just finished up with a 203/205 doubler a few months ago.......


and NOW you come out with the magnum......:rolleyes::rolleyes:


do you take trade ins ?? :haha:

wombat
01-29-2013, 08:40 PM
I have been waiting.... patiently. For a long time to get my money together enough to buy a 241 doubler kit. Got the money together, call ORD, and nope, sorry. They don't offer it, and don't know if they ever will. To much time and money invested in the magnum box for the rich folks. Does anyone know of ANY body else that offers the parts, (shaft, shifter, anything) for me to piece one together to work with a figure 8 205? ORD is such a let down.

38377k5
01-29-2013, 08:59 PM
I have been waiting.... patiently. For a long time to get my money together enough to buy a 241 doubler kit. Got the money together, call ORD, and nope, sorry. They don't offer it, and don't know if they ever will. To much time and money invested in the magnum box for the rich folks. Does anyone know of ANY body else that offers the parts, (shaft, shifter, anything) for me to piece one together to work with a figure 8 205? ORD is such a let down.

It's not too much money invested in anything, it's time. We are expanding and our day-to-day business is booming, our machine shop is totally overworked with day to day operations.

That project was unofficially announced and never made it on the web page, as mentioned it is on hold for an unknown ETA.

We do have lots of parts, shafts, plates, etc. if anyone has interest in that. Until we have more machines/people/shop space that may be the status for the near future.