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View Full Version : How to tell between deuce and a half and 5 ton?


cybrfire
01-16-2004, 11:35 PM
Also what would you do with it if you had one?

84_Chevy_K10
01-16-2004, 11:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Also what would you do with it if you had one?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. The size of the vehicle is pretty obvious. Depending on the variants, the size of tires can indicate it too. Sometimes I still get them confused, maybe someone that spends more time around them than I do can help you more.

2. If I had one, I would sell it, as I see no point in owning one.

cybrfire
01-16-2004, 11:46 PM
problem is there isn't another vehicle to compare to.

I've got lots of ideas for it. Just don't know which I like better.

84_Chevy_K10
01-16-2004, 11:48 PM
A picture would help.

cybrfire
01-16-2004, 11:50 PM
don't have one yet. Don't even have the truck yet. Just contemplating the weight for trailering it home. 2.5 ton is between 12 and 14 thousand pounds. 5 ton is much heavier than the trailer can withstand.

75-K5
01-17-2004, 12:05 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Also what would you do with it if you had one?

[/ QUOTE ]

What WOULDN'T you do with one?!?! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

84_Chevy_K10
01-17-2004, 12:09 AM
[ QUOTE ]
don't have one yet. Don't even have the truck yet. Just contemplating the weight for trailering it home. 2.5 ton is between 12 and 14 thousand pounds. 5 ton is much heavier than the trailer can withstand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the trucks are too tall to have on any trailer and legally pull down the road...unless you like taking out overpasses. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

Even if they're not, no matter how big the pickup, I wouldn't have one of those things behind me on ANY trailer, SCREW THAT!

Semi truck lowboy ONLY!

OrangeCrushK10
01-17-2004, 03:01 AM
1. They look slightly different. I have trouble telling the difference a lot of the time.

2. I've been thinking of buying one recently. Possibly I'll own one in the next couple years.
First thing I'll do: Restore it mechanially.
Second thing: Cosmetics. I'll be painting it a dark urban camo. Figure it should look pretty awesome and intimidating then. Not to mention fun as hell. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

big k5
01-17-2004, 05:33 AM
I think they are cool.I have also driven both when i was in the military.I prefer the 2.5 ton over the 5 ton.5 tons are alot bigger body wise & normally run alot bigger tire (but not always)The 5 ton is also an automatic.I never saw a straight shift in a 5 ton,but all the 2.5 tons were straight shifts.The 2.5 ton is a pretty quick truck for its size. If I had one I'd like to squeeze the biggest,meanest tire i could on it,redo the paint,and just have fun with it.maybe load it upfull of people & cruise 4x4 event shows?

ben427
01-17-2004, 07:13 AM
Try this place http://www.easternsurplus.net/ The images may help you compare. I must say I realllly want a deuce big time, they are sweet.

cybrfire
01-17-2004, 07:18 AM
OK, thanks for the link. I think this must be a 2.5 ton I'm looking at. Does anybody know the wheel base measurements from front wheel to second wheel to third wheel and Bed size. Oh, also tire diameter? Is there a place on line that has the specs?

ben427
01-17-2004, 07:26 AM
most of them deuces ive seen were 9.00-20s or 10.00-20 tires , at 38 and 40 inches respectively. Yo can put 14.00-20s(48s) without much difficulty. With the 12 foor bed i would guess that the wheelbase is 175 inches to the centre of the tandems.

sled_dog
01-17-2004, 07:45 AM
http://www.easternsurplus.net/168e.JPG
http://www.usa6x6.com/Rockwells%202%20each%20w%20discs%20top.jpg
These axles were narrowed and you can see the center section is smaller than the 5 ton.

gravdigr
01-17-2004, 09:33 AM
There actually was a 2 1/2 for sale out here. Was in good condition and ran well. Guy wanted $1,200 for it. It's gone now. I had visions of making it a flatbed monument truck with a liftgate and crane to replace the aging F350 we have now.

thatK30guy
01-17-2004, 09:45 AM
The easiest way to tell the other apart, especially if you don't have a set to compare side by side, is to count the lug studs.

6 lugs is a 2.5 ton.
10 lugs is the 5 ton.

/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

mud390
01-17-2004, 11:22 AM
I got the chance to drive a Duece on a previous deployment almost every day for about 3 months. The one I drove had a turbo on. What a sweet sound! That thing would really move for its size and weight. We used it pull out a stuck fuel truck that was full and it didn't strain at all. The only bad thing about those trucks, would be worse for every day driving, is the manual steering. It'll really give you a workout. I remember seeing a hydro kit somewhere. It seemed expensive though.
What would I do with it if I got one? Drive it to work everyday! That would be a blast! Take the top of in the summer too!

Kris

Mudzer
01-17-2004, 11:30 AM
As long as we are comparing stock rockwells in 2.5 ton and 5 ton variety. The 2.5 ton is easily identified with the square yoke on the pinion where the 5 ton has the round. 2.5 ton is also 6 lug where the 5 ton is... um Im not sure.

cybrfire
01-17-2004, 12:35 PM
I'm pretty sure its a 2.5 ton. I'll look at the lug nuts to make sure thanks. I'm thinking about setting some type of compartment on the back by the cab for storing things such as a torch and other tools. Probably will also put a Boom hoist on there somewhere and use it for scrapping trucks. Maybe also use it for a tow vehicle. wonder how an overdrive unit would work out? /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

R72K5
01-17-2004, 12:45 PM
ok then what about the C60 trucks with the huge 5 lug clamp and bolt style wheel pattern and the 47-72 years 11,000lb eaton axles with the ten studs pattern ?

i dont think the 6 lug vs 10 lug pattern identification is very accurate

or something is wrong here

looks liek 5 ton axles has backside of diff laying down and evertything else has the backside of the diff vertical like normally seen under all light duty trucks cars

on side note we have scrapped alot of huge big trucks and axles and leaf setups and recently even, we just cut the axles up and load the pieces into truck cuz freaking heavy as hell, i dont know how anyone could use such a gigantic rear under a light duty chassis, how is such possible ? and should i have been saving some of these huge axles ? most of them been two speed rears. pretty commonly seen and scrapped /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

2.5 ton turcks range in GVW rating from about 13k to 16k, the 1 tons are base GVW rating of 10k, for comparison purposes, but there was a larger axle you could get for 1 tons and that increased the GVW rating above the std equip 10k

thatK30guy
01-17-2004, 12:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
i dont think the 6 lug vs 10 lug pattern identification is very accurate

[/ QUOTE ]

Wanna do a friendly wager? /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

skratch
01-17-2004, 01:11 PM
They are actually talking about Military rigs.
Your point is true about civilan trucks but the Kaiser duece's and 5 tons are a bit different and a lot of hardcore guys use the Rockwell axles under their rigs.

Someone stated earlier that all 5 tons are auto's. WTF!
Obviously you've only ever seen the new 9 series 5 tons (ie 939A2 and 923), the old 8 and 9 series which is all we had were all manual tranny's slightly larger than a duece and have the air filter on the opposite fender as the duece as well.
The 9 series use a different rear axle and have single rear wheels, the old 9 and 8 series have duals just like a duece.
Also some rare versions of the duece had 10 lug axles (the one I saw may have been a unit built hybrid though). I don't recall exactlly which ones and my tech manuals are all buried in the basement.

The 5 ton I had, ran a turbo cummins in it and pulled like there was no tomorrow. Also had the PTO driven winch on the front bumper and all kinds of other hydraulic stuff set up on it, outriggers (fully hydro)(scavenged off a HEMTT), wet line kit for hydro tools! The truck was built off of an old wrecker but had the van body on it with the mods for a mobile service shop.

If I had a 5 ton, It'd have to be a van body so I could build it up for camping out in and a mobile service shop for when I go wheeling. It'd make one heck of a tow rig, and I couold bring with all the tools from the shop and still have room to sleep, store gear, cook and anything else I wanted to do! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

But I'd rather do that to a 26 ton 8wd rig!
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/hemtt.jpg

Here is an old 939 5 ton
http://www.stock-number.com/images/M-Series_6x6_cargo.gif
Note on a 5 ton the air filter can is on the drivers side.
And on the Duece its not a can just the hat.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/images/BrackenMotor/waltm352.jpg
Ands here is the "new" M939A2 which is an Auto and single rear wheel.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m-939-dvic359.jpg

84_Chevy_K10
01-17-2004, 01:14 PM
I actually like the single wheel 5 tons better, they're sweet.

I don't particularly care for the HEMTT though...too heavy and big.

Now the M88 on the other hand.....

skratch
01-17-2004, 01:38 PM
I take it you've never had a chance to really drive a HEMTT.

Yeah they are big and heavy, but I took mine places Hummers couldn't go. Mine also had the governor modified so it would run 90 flat out!
If you know how to drive them they are basically unstopable.

What have you done in an 88.

I got one as airborne as I could and sheared off a road wheel arm, and blew out the L/S final drive.
under normal driving they are the cadillac of recovery, and only apply have a foot print of 65psi! considering they weigh in at 56 tons thats pretty cool.

But I want to know what kind of experience you actually have ( I lived and breathed these vehicles for three years straight as senior recovery operator in my unit, and most of the time I (my unit) was first on the list for post wide recovery operations.)

OK here's an M88 for those that don't know:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m88a1-crane.jpg
Thats a 55,000lb M109 that it's lifting.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m-88a1-arv-dvic352.jpg

big k5
01-17-2004, 02:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
WTF! DOES THAT REALLY SEEM NECESSARY ? SO OBVIOUSLY I DON'T KNOW EVERY 5 TON EVER MADE.(BUT I CAN TELL YOU DO) AUTOMATIC 5 TONS WERE WHAT I HAD IN AT LEAST 2 SEPERATE UNITS & I WAS GIVING MY OPINION ON THE SUBJECT.SORRY IF I MISINFORMED ANYONE............& SKRATCH WTF!

Someone stated earlier that all 5 tons are auto's. WTF!
Obviously you've only ever seen the new 9 series 5 tons (ie 939A2 and 923), the old 8 and 9 series which is all we had were all manual tranny's

skratch
01-17-2004, 03:13 PM
Dude just relax, I wasn't trying to crap on you or anything.

I was just trying to correct some simple misinformation.

I don't understand why you guys have to take stuff so personally.
I get corrected all the time, big deal I don't know everything and I like to learn when I'm mistaken.

The only reason I know as much as I do is I study, spent three years living breathing these trucks day and night. Senior recovery operator, Senior Heavy Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic and III Corp Driver of the Quarter third quarter '95. I had to know my stuff to do my job.

84_Chevy_K10
01-17-2004, 04:06 PM
I've never got to drive a HEMMT. In fact, I can't recall ever driving any wheeled vehicle for the army.

I've driven Bradleys, M2A2, M2A2 ODS, and M6 Linebacker versions. Also got to drive the M113A2 on a few occassions.

I get to watch all the cool stuff in action though, the M88 is my personal favorite. Getting to watch that pull two M1s at the same time was pretty cool!

I have a general interest in all the Army's vehicles, I think they're all cool as hell to get to watch. In my MOS, I don't get to operate very many of them, but they're still cool to see in action.

I especially enjoyed the NTC. There, I got to see them ALL in motion.

cybrfire
01-17-2004, 04:13 PM
I personally never drove any military vehicles but I may be soon if everything works out. I'll keep you all posted with pics if and when it comes home.

Thanks for all the information. One other question is how would you identify which model it is and whether it is multifuel or just deisel? Any other specifics you know would be appreciated. How about general operation? Are they similar to shifting a pickup in and out of 4 wheel drive or are they always in six wheel? Do they have keys or push button start? Been searching the web but these kind of specifics aren't printed.

Stickseler
01-17-2004, 04:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Here is an old 939 5 ton


[/ QUOTE ]

Thought that was a 923 /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif...But I was just a glorified grunt

skratch
01-17-2004, 04:54 PM
AUUUUUUUUUGH!
My bad. You caught me making a mistake.

Actually that one was an M-813 series I believe. I ID'd it wrong earlier.

The larger nose ones are the M-923, M-939 series. I don't recall the differences between those ones right now other that Marines got one and the Army supposedly got the other.
I do know that the newer ones had single wheels like the HEMTT.
The older ones, both 8 and 9 series, came with duals.
There are weird combos out there like AM General rebuilds that look like a new 9 series and have duals (M929), and I have seen several older 8 series outfitted with the big singles from a newer 9 series.

Considering how long these have been in service it can get really hard to keep them all straight. However ID'ing them from a Duece really isn't that hard. And that was the point I think.

84_Chevy_K10
01-17-2004, 04:56 PM
I think they're all (not all, but all made recently) multifuel, but I could be wrong.

The front axle can be engaged and disengaged and they have a low range as well. I believe they're on seperate shifters.

All tactical vehicles have push button start.

skratch
01-17-2004, 05:07 PM
All the identification as to exactly which M series it is and what fuel type the engine is will be on the spec plates rivited to the truck (if you can still read them)

Most of the ones I've seen (just me) have been multi fuel engine. We used JP8 in everything we had, and from what I understand all tactical vehicles can run on this fuel. Diesel should be just fine in any older duece.

General operation is about the same as driving any other truck, only a couple of the trucks in our motorpool required double clutching. As for transfer cases, the manual shifted the same as any other truck, just different patterns on the shifter. only one duece in our unit had the "locking" front axle, all others were open. It's been 8 years since I got out so I don't remember the transfer shifting pattern anymore, except on the HEMTT's and that's a whole different animal.

And they use a push button for starting, no keys except to lock up the steering on them with a chain (at least in my units).

I'll dig out my 10-20 series manuals here in the next few days if you have any questions about parts and such.
I can locate the NSN for just about any part. Most of my books are for the HEMMTs though. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

cybrfire
01-17-2004, 05:12 PM
I'll get a hold of you if and when I get it home. Thanks.

Stickseler
01-17-2004, 05:18 PM
Thats it 813...its only been 12 yrs...and then I had a M-1038 MRC-110...and Later a M-1097?? (converted stinger truck)Hybrid MRC-138....But my original Tactical license was for a M-151.

Oh and the Marine Corps Drgon Wagon..Kinda like the HMETT with and articulated center was the coolest thing I ever drove...After the LAV-25

HarryH3
01-17-2004, 05:47 PM
All those trucks are cool, but to be truly unique you need one of these bad boys:

http://www.militaryvehicles.com/jpegs/156_full.jpg

You can buy it for a measly $20K at: http://www.militaryvehicles.com/vehicle_156.shtml

THAT would freak out the neighbors! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

skratch
01-17-2004, 05:48 PM
HMMWV's are cool in a weird sorta way, most of the really cool ones are the custom build up's that individual units do. We had a couple that were built in town and worked really well, had A/C and blackout lights set up to come on when the door opened. They had engine controls and gauges in the build up, they looked kinda like the comm shack HMMWV's.

I've only seen one Dragon Wagon in person and that was Bad Ass!
The LAV-25 is cool, kinda like a M93A1 NBC/FOX only bigger, 1 extra axle. We had one of those in our unit and I got to drive it a couple times, saweeeeeeet!

When I left the ARMY I had a tactical license for every Army ground vehicle on Ft. Sill except the M1A1. All wheeled vehicles, and all tracked vehicles with the exception of the tanks. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif For some reason they didn't trust me to drive one of those. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Being recovery/maintenance was cool, I got to drive basically anything I wanted, and then they added it to my tactical license. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

But I still love the HEMMT, that is to me the coolest truck in the US military. The Soviets had some sweet big rigs though that I would love to get my hands on.

Stickseler
01-17-2004, 05:56 PM
We customized most of our comm hummer for the unit. We called them ghetto Army cause we had to make our comm boxes out of 2x4's and 3/8" plywood. but we made them to fit under the tarp so people couldnt tell what they were. We made the Alpha command COC pretty sweet and the Bravo cmd radio and wire trucks were trick. We came up with a 4 door hi-top (our converted stinger truck) at one point that carried about 12 radios in it and had 6 232 masts mounted on it with a HF vee mounted between them the helos got a kick out of it cause we drew an Dog target on top of it,

skratch
01-17-2004, 05:59 PM
That place has some really weird stuff on it.

But I have never seen one of these:
http://www.militaryvehicles.com/jpegs/27_full.jpg
Anyone know the designation for a mil Burb?
I'd love to look for one instead of the CUCV. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Stickseler
01-17-2004, 06:06 PM
I rember seeing one of those up at ft McCoy in around 88 or so. But I couldn't tell you if it was "real". How bout this (http://www.gmmilitary.com/Suburban.htm) not bad for new

skratch
01-17-2004, 06:12 PM
Yeah I've seen that one before, they have some really cool rigs on that site.
Like this one:
http://www.gmmilitary.com/images/CTD%20Left-Frt%201L.jpg
And this one:
http://www.gmmilitary.com/images/cemv6Ljpg.jpg
/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif