CK5 - The Full-Size GM Off Road Community

well I found me a fuel cell this morning and picked up enough metal to make China hate me /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

sooo just wondering, I am really going for a set up simiular to crawlin73's and I want to fuel cell to be mid ship if possable.

cant waight to cut the frame and loose the tank /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

any ideas? /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif


This is a BIG fuel cell, I worry though that not having any weight in the rear will become a big issue real quick, has any body decided to not mount there fuel cell midship because of this?

pro's and cons?

well I am off to go get some sawzaw blades /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif

cool deal /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif

this is what i'm gonna do..
i am going to order a 15 gal fuel cell from summit which is 20x18x10. i plan on leaving in the back seat and mounting the fuel cell close to the rear of the bed.

the tube work will add weight to the rear along with the fuel so i don't think you'll have any problem.

I saw your pic and it looks like we think alike, here is what i made a while back

/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/532000-532999/532757_31_full.jpg

/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif cool design..

here's the fuel cell i bought.
RCI-2151AS (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=RCI%2D2151AS) from summit

http://www.texas4x4.org/gallery/albums/album17/alumcell3.jpg

and i also picked up one of these.
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/norm/sum-g3114_m.jpg fuel cell tip valve (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DG3114&view=257#largerima ge)

What fuel pump are you going with?

stock fuel pump.. still q-jetted so no pump inside the tank..

You could make a small "cage" around your fuel cell and run the spare and jack over it if you need more weight

I need to think of something to bog down my rear too, may just fill the bumper with cement /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

I am thinking a cage or hose for it out of 2x2 angle iron, I dunno I got to do some sawszaw work before it goes in anyways /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif


here is my cell, it is the "green things" or cell I bought from shane /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/532000-532999/532757_30_full.jpg

Mine's right behind the rear axle, kind of in the stock location but it's only 17" or so deep so it really doesn't generate any overhang. The top of the 14 bolt would hit the cell if it was any farther forward and the height is still OK for working on, filling, etc. It's a 22 gal RCI or summit plastic/steel can type. I think this is an ideal location for weight and it also keeps it out of the central cargo space. We put my brother's is right behind his seats on top of the driveshaft and it works well there in that his cargo area is easier to access from the rear of the buggy but it's harder to fill and he has no chance of running a back seat. His balance is also different because his drivetrain's not in stock GM location compared to the axles.

Steve, what fuel pump are you running?

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Steve, what fuel pump are you running?

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feelin a little happy on fuel pump ehh /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif

why are you always asking about everyone's pump /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Because I am going to go fuel cell but I haven't seen any that allow the use of an in-tank pump so wondering what others have done. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

use a bosch inline, BlazinOR (burbinOr now) had one in his 79 with his TPI 406. didn't have the cell just the external pump.

Don't mean to high-jack but while your on the subject of cells... Anyone know of a good chambered one? I can get an RCI aluminum one for decently cheap but it just has some foam peices. With my luck I'd get stranded on a nast hill sucking air with 5 galons of fuel in the tank.

you can add a cupple of these holley multi point pickups (http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/FMS/FMSFP/12-951.html) and it should take care of that problem.

I am running an external MSD pump with my TPI that is designed for MPFI. It is only like $85 shipped from Jegs or Summit. It has been working fine for 3 months or so now. No problems other then it is LOUD. If I had the money and a do over I would go with a better pump like the Bosch.

Any external pump rated for MPFI should pump way more then your TBI (that is what you are running right?) will need and it would probably be a good idea to get an adjustable regulator for it.

Pump wiring is simple. Positive and Negative. Connect the positive to your fuel pump power wire from the computer and your good to go.

Just make sure to use Fuel Injection rated softline and fuel injection hose clamps with a high pressure pump.

Harley

I run a modified TBI (bored) with regulator and Walbro High Pressure 255 ltr/hr in-tank Fuel Pump.

I would just get an external Walbro or Bosch pump and reuse your regulator and call it a day.

I don't like the external fuel pumps for 3 reasons.

1) Externals cost more, usually almost twice for anything you can depend on. I can put in a new internal and buy another for a spare for about the same cost as putting on an external.
2) Externals do not last nearly as long and they are more vulnerable to environmental hazards. Down sides of internals is that they are more difficult to get too, but greater longevity and a simple access door tempers that problem.
3) Externals are much more noisy (as you already observed). Even the more expensive versions of the externals are still louder then the common Delco internal.

For these reasons I've been in the same boat as Steve for a while now. I run a K5 tank for now, but that has to go to make room for rear links and I have not yet found an acceptable replacement that will accept the GM sender insert or an internal fuel pump without major surgery. I'll be starting the links this spring/summer and I'll probably just build a tank like I want and graft in the GM sender port...

Can't just a bladder be purchased and you make your own box i.e. using the Chevy fuel pump mount someway somehow? I think I remember correctly on a race car I helped restore years and years ago we built our own box and put a bladder into it. I could be just smokin crack again but that's another story. /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif Good luck to y'all in the future.

Allan

But the bladder would need a seal compatable with the sender, or you would still need to fabricate something for the standard round patern so you might as well use a standard can too. Certainly doable, but I've got some ideas on a baffle/sump system that I want to try anyway along with a roll-over valve...

I'm using the external pump Edelbrock sent with my MPFI system, it's been good for almost 3 years now of recreational use. My brother's using a walbro external we got from howell. I'd like to have an in tank but it was way too easy to use what was in my hands at the time than to figure out all the details involved in putting a pump inside a cell or even in my K5 tank that didn't have the right baffles, mounts, etc. I just used a bulkhead fitting to run the pickup out the side of the cell near the bottom and mounted the pump at or below the bottom of the cell. This way the fuel is always sitting on the pump so it never has to prime itself. In fact, the feed hose to the pump spits a pretty good stream all by itself. It's not perfect but (knock on wood) it hasn't failed me yet an I've been running an external pump for at least 5 years now.
My TBI pump was set up the same way with the K5 tank and worked great.

Summary" if done right, the external pump will be OK but it's still hard to beat the reliability of an in tank pump, if you can make it fit.

I'm using a 20gal. RCI fuel cell with a built in sump. After consulting several of the fabricators in phoenix they recommended using a yj (square mount) sender and bracket set up. I picked one up with a bosch pump still attached, modified the float (I didnt need it), cut the hole in my fuel cell (filled it with dry ice and water before cutting) and now have an in tank fuel pump that actually looks pretty cool. One of the best things I've done for my blazer and now my frame rail mounted fuel pump is just a back up.

Pics?

this is got to be the BIGGEST thread hi-jacking ever /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif

but..good stuff /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

Steve, I made a fuel cell, and cut the top out of my old tank and welded it into the new tank. I don't have any pics, but if I get a chance, I will get you some. The new tank is just as deep as the stocker, but is much bigger and sits above the bed. It is about 32 gallons.

Here is the best pic I have. It is under the spare.
http://www.socalbigdawgs.com/albums/eeyore/aba.jpg

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http://www.socalbigdawgs.com/albums/eeyore/aba.jpg

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/forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif I thought it was the cooler at first /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif

What do you all think of those 60 gallon fuel cells in the harbor frieght catalog that have the tool box above them. One of those about midship I think would be sweet /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

Don't steal my idea. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif I have been planning on running a 50 gallon cell/tool box in my next truck for over a year now. I think it would be awesome because all the weight of your tools and fuel are mid ship.

[ QUOTE ]
Mine's right behind the rear axle, kind of in the stock location but it's only 17" or so deep so it really doesn't generate any overhang. The top of the 14 bolt would hit the cell if it was any farther forward and the height is still OK for working on, filling, etc. It's a 22 gal RCI or summit plastic/steel can type. I think this is an ideal location for weight and it also keeps it out of the central cargo space. We put my brother's is right behind his seats on top of the driveshaft and it works well there in that his cargo area is easier to access from the rear of the buggy but it's harder to fill and he has no chance of running a back seat. His balance is also different because his drivetrain's not in stock GM location compared to the axles.

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where or how are his axels relocated? I ended up deciding to put it mid ship for rear nspace and a place to put my spare, I want the tie to pivit or swing away and have a nice big tool box where the tank was. If I carry 1/2 as much as rob I should have the same weight...


I have also considered getting a 15 gallon cell and placing it in the stock location, this would keep the 454 happy if I had two tanks.

Also I have thought about 2 tanks,I could use a inline fuel pump that could tranfer fuel to one tank from the other to help with the weight biass or in consistant hill climbs or assending to select the best tank.

just thinking out loaud

[ QUOTE ]
Don't steal my idea. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif I have been planning on running a 50 gallon cell/tool box in my next truck for over a year now. I think it would be awesome because all the weight of your tools and fuel are mid ship.

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/forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif my thoughts too /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif

where or how are his axels relocated?

http://www.offroaddesign.com/travels/21rd03-4.JPG

His motor's moved back about 8" and down about 6" compared to our K5's. It's also a 115" wheelbase so that's another difference. You can see the cell placement in the pic above.

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/8/web/320000-320999/320728_220_full.jpg /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

[ QUOTE ]
But the bladder would need a seal compatable with the sender, or you would still need to fabricate something for the standard round patern so you might as well use a standard can too. Certainly doable, but I've got some ideas on a baffle/sump system that I want to try anyway along with a roll-over valve...

[/ QUOTE ]

Would it really be that hard to graft on the stock circle pattern in-tank pump to the top of a cell, I like this one because of the size, would fit much better than a square one behind a rear seat and it is 12" high, real close to the height of my stock tank. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

That was in reference to using a bladder with a home made can and a stock sender. That would require sealing the bladder to the can lid using a standard bladder cell seal, and then having a stock style round cam lock sender port somehow mounted as well.

But, taking a standard fuel cell (not a bladder type) and grafting on a stock GM sender port shouldn’t be bad. If the cell is steel, you could weld it. If not, you could machine a ring to mount the cam lock port on, and the ring could bolt down to the cell like a standard cell sender with gasket to isolate the dissimilar metals. In fact, a creative person could probably do this and use a bladder type tank with the ring machined to fit the can standard opening and the GM sender mounted in the ring.

Did that make any sense?

Yeah, I just can't believe that someplace like RCI doesn't make a cell to fit a GM in tank pump? Damn them! /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

I agree 100%. Why not call Bill and see if he can't make you an adapter ring? Should be fairly trivial as long as the OD does not conflict. Then you would just need to adjust the up tube and wires as needed...

I just knew I'd inspire greatness in lines of thought. It's just to bad I can't have great lines of thought on my own. Ah well good luck to y'all and call on me if you need any other thoughts of greatness inspired.

Allan