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Old 10-17-2010, 08:14 PM   #1
buffblazer
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new audio for the k5

looking to upgrade the blazer, i have a brand new deck that needs good sound running through it.

my goal is to have a sound system with a very good bass beat but also when singing can actually hear the words.


i run around with the top off a lot so i need crisp clear sound at higher volume levels. and when we are at the river it would be nice to crank the stereo and have it thumping (as the some people put it)

what speakers do yall recommend and how many? i have 4 in the rear panels and 4 little ones in the headliner.


im completly gutting the interior here soon so i may change the headliner and am not opposed to speakers in the dash.

also what kind of wires? i may submerge the floorboard in water crossings so i need wire that can handle it.

Are amps a bad idea?

i dont know much about audio so any help will be great.
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Old 10-18-2010, 01:56 PM
Posted in reply to buffblazer's post "new audio for the k5"
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blazin_blazer
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u say you don't know much about audio, what about electronics in general? do you understand how 2- 4 ohm speakers can be wired + to + & -to- to = 2 ohm & wired in series -to+ -to+ to = 8 ohms...and how amps&speakers are rated as such..most mobile audio amps/speakers are rated @ 4 ohm & home stuff usually 8 ohm.......my point being if you use 2 50 watt speakers on each side/channel on a 75x2 amp, that's more power than the speakers can handle(its not 50w+50w=100w on 75x2 amp) b/c the speakers together in 2 ohm creates 1/2 the load on that amp rated at 75x2@4 ohms..therefor 1/2 the load = twice the current, which = that amp really putting out 150x2 now & putting 75w on each of those 50w speakers. don't over power your speakers..

u have a headliner so i assume you have the a&b pillar trim..u can surface or flush mount tweets in a-pillar..put 2 80w+ 6 1/2'' or 5 1/4'' 2 ways in front door...2 80w+ 6x9's 3-ways in rear 1/4 panel..on a 2 ohm capable 75x2 amp...that should be 150x2 =75 watts on each 1/4 panel speaker & door spkrs-run the a-pillar tweet off head-unit power ..that sounds pretty good..after that if you want more..try adding another amp and put 4 100w+ 6x9's in the rear 1/4's on 1 75x2 amp and 1-75w+ 6 1/2's in each door & 2 60w+ 4's in the dash on a 2nd 50x2 amp..still more add a good 150w+ sub & amp

check into marine speakers for the doors..i use cheap entry level-midgrade pioneer amps & speakers in anything that may let the smoke out the box(get ruined easily)except for my marine door speakers which iirc are jvc..or jensen..least.. cost to high quality ratio seems best w/pioneer, but it is personal preference at this level of audio equipment..i swore off cheap stuff like roadmaster & pyramid b/c they easily go bad w/o all the ruff stuff but may sound fine to others

on your wiring..if you keep all the end terminals up out of water, the regular insulation should protect it..and of course mount amps up high out of harms way..i have mounted amps above rear wheel-wells in back of k5..made the interior panel cover so amps top fins where flush mounted to interior panel & it hid all the wiring to each 6x9 in front & in rear of wheel-well.

i wrote this over time..having to leave & come back to it-if its incoheriant or you don't understand something ask, i'll try and help..i've been a ASE certified installer since late 90's..i just don't do it for a living anymore..just my own stuff & favors for friends..
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:21 PM
Posted in reply to buffblazer's post "new audio for the k5"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buffblazer View Post
looking to upgrade the blazer, i have a brand new deck that needs good sound running through it.

my goal is to have a sound system with a very good bass beat but also when singing can actually hear the words.


i run around with the top off a lot so i need crisp clear sound at higher volume levels. and when we are at the river it would be nice to crank the stereo and have it thumping (as the some people put it)

what speakers do yall recommend and how many? i have 4 in the rear panels and 4 little ones in the headliner.


im completly gutting the interior here soon so i may change the headliner and am not opposed to speakers in the dash.8

also what kind of wires? i may submerge the floorboard in water crossings so i need wire that can handle it.

Are amps a bad idea?

i dont know much about audio so any help will be great.
Almani 6.5 component speakers with seperate tweet and crossover.
They are water RESISTANT, not water proof, and they are very loud and fairly cheap, about 55 a pair.
And a kicker five channel marine amp to run everything. Also water resistant.
It's actually submergible, wouldn't recommend it but they've done it as a test.

I highly recommend running an amp, especially if you are planning on high volume.

It will give you the volume you want without clipping your speakers and burning them up, and it will give you the SQ you want.

Just make sure you have adequate electrical. ~80 amps for the five channel

I recommend doing the big three if you plan on doing any amp at all.
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Old 11-07-2010, 06:49 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazin_blazer View Post
u say you don't know much about audio, what about electronics in general? do you understand how 2- 4 ohm speakers can be wired + to + & -to- to = 2 ohm & wired in series -to+ -to+ to = 8 ohms...and how amps&speakers are rated as such..most mobile audio amps/speakers are rated @ 4 ohm & home stuff usually 8 ohm.......my point being if you use 2 50 watt speakers on each side/channel on a 75x2 amp, that's more power than the speakers can handle(its not 50w+50w=100w on 75x2 amp) b/c the speakers together in 2 ohm creates 1/2 the load on that amp rated at 75x2@4 ohms..therefor 1/2 the load = twice the current, which = that amp really putting out 150x2 now & putting 75w on each of those 50w speakers. don't over power your speakers..

u have a headliner so i assume you have the a&b pillar trim..u can surface or flush mount tweets in a-pillar..put 2 80w+ 6 1/2'' or 5 1/4'' 2 ways in front door...2 80w+ 6x9's 3-ways in rear 1/4 panel..on a 2 ohm capable 75x2 amp...that should be 150x2 =75 watts on each 1/4 panel speaker & door spkrs-run the a-pillar tweet off head-unit power ..that sounds pretty good..after that if you want more..try adding another amp and put 4 100w+ 6x9's in the rear 1/4's on 1 75x2 amp and 1-75w+ 6 1/2's in each door & 2 60w+ 4's in the dash on a 2nd 50x2 amp..still more add a good 150w+ sub & amp

check into marine speakers for the doors..i use cheap entry level-midgrade pioneer amps & speakers in anything that may let the smoke out the box(get ruined easily)except for my marine door speakers which iirc are jvc..or jensen..least.. cost to high quality ratio seems best w/pioneer, but it is personal preference at this level of audio equipment..i swore off cheap stuff like roadmaster & pyramid b/c they easily go bad w/o all the ruff stuff but may sound fine to others

on your wiring..if you keep all the end terminals up out of water, the regular insulation should protect it..and of course mount amps up high out of harms way..i have mounted amps above rear wheel-wells in back of k5..made the interior panel cover so amps top fins where flush mounted to interior panel & it hid all the wiring to each 6x9 in front & in rear of wheel-well.

i wrote this over time..having to leave & come back to it-if its incoheriant or you don't understand something ask, i'll try and help..i've been a ASE certified installer since late 90's..i just don't do it for a living anymore..just my own stuff & favors for friends..
Alright, so misinformation all through here.

Manly, the "don't overpower your speakers" theory.

Reality is, it is actually much worse to run an amp with too little power, you end up clipping the amp and burning up your speakers and sometimes your amp. Not to mention the fact that you lose SQ.

Second, don't go with cheap ****. The speakers will be over rated and the amps will be WAY over rated.
For example. My "1000" watt pioneer amp, which uses a 60 amp fuse, is somehow supposed to make make 1000 RMS at 14.4 volts.
Yea right... 14.4volts x 60 amps = 864 in a perfect world.
But it's only 85% efficient.... So 734 watts RMS..

See how they did that?

Yet my RF 500.1 is advertised as 500 wRMS
The birth sheet says it will put out 702 wRMS.

You just have to read up on the stuff you are buying.
You only want to buy this stuff once I presume.
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Old 11-10-2010, 05:51 PM
Posted in reply to CherryK5's post starting "Alright, so misinformation all through..."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CherryK5 View Post
See how they did that?
no misinfo in my post...let me explain

they got 1000 watts(or close...they are allowed to round those #'s up quite abit) right b4 it burned up...prolly @1/2 ohm or less load..i'm not 1 to argue, but i KNOW electronics..i was a radar tech for 6+yrs..& after i got out, i earned a MS in electrical engineering & ran my own car audio shop for yrs...so when u say under power to an amp is bad(i agree), but don't try & shoot me down when i said don't over power speakers..your talkin 12vdc INTO amp..i'm talking power OUT of amp, you are compare apples to oranges.

my 100w hcca is rated 50x2 @ 4ohm @ 11v..but its 1/4ohm stable..which makes over 800x2 @ 1/4ohm @ 14v..sure its a cheater amp rated 100w that output near 2000w for competition..

same thing but backwards w/cheap amps they put 15-16v in and run 1/4 or 1/8 ohm to get highest possible peak output prior to burning it up to advertise by, but when same amp sees only 12v & the full 4ohm load it needs to survive in a car, it only puts out a true 80-100w, but is still sold as a 1000w amp
...so if your 1000w 4ohm amp makes true 700+w @ 4ohm its within spec as normal

your RF 500.1 is rated 500wx1 @ 4ohm but is true 702w at 2ohm..its 1 ohm stable, so it will make @1400w @ 1ohm..therefor giving more power than rated b/c the load has been cut, so if someone doesn't understand this, its very easy to over power speakers when wireing them parallel, which is what i was trying to explain
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Old 11-10-2010, 08:37 PM   #6
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Tech specs aside, I can tell you in practical application to properly "thump" a K5 with the top off we experimented on my buddy's rig until we settled on 4 12" subs with about 1200 watts (advertised) in a sealed box built to the sub's airspace spec. You could definitely get away with less but that was enough that we could park it at the river or something and get good volume standing outside the rig. That was with component 6.5"s in the doors/dash and 6.5" 2 ways in the bedsides run from a separate 650 watt amp.

With a setup like that if you're gonna listen out of the rig I'd definitely consider an isolated second battery so you can still start the rig if you run the stereo for too long.

That was probably overkill but damn if it didn't sound good. You'd be amazed how much sound is lost with the top off while driving even with a couple of big subs in the back.

To speculate on power needs is kind of a moot point right now as can't really figure impedance and wattage until after you find the speakers you want to use since they'll determine how everything will get wired. Dual voice coil subs will definitely give you more flexibility in that respect.
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